Glock Killer ?
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:06 am
The real Glock killer may have finally been found – at least for me.
I hear this term, “Glock Killer” from time to time and although I understood the concept, it puzzled me a bit in that if you built something just a good as a Glock, why would anyone change from something that they were familiar with to something unfamiliar with no added benefit. It would seem to me that the so called Glock Killer would have to do what the Glock does, but do it better to a degree that someone would consider changing – a few did, but most did not. The Glock has a number of things going for it such as it is rugged, reliable, easy to use, easy to disassemble, and magazines are inexpensive. What it had going against it is poor ergonomics, a mushy trigger pull, expensive for the materials and number of parts you get, and just so-so accuracy. As far as the accuracy issue, it was always my belief that this was due in large part to the trigger. I believe it was Colonel Coop that once said half or more of accuracy was the trigger – or something like that.
To the best of my memory the first so called Glock Killer was the Smith and Wesson M&P, followed by the Springfield XDM, the SIG 320, and lately the CZ P10C. I thought the M&P no better than a Glock except that it had better ergonomics and a few features Glock did not offer such as a manual safety, magazine out safety, and changeable grip panels. This was in deed enough to gain some converts and the fact that many police departments picked it up did not hurt. The Springfield XDM offered a better trigger, a grip safety and somewhat better ergonomics, but never seem to take off like the M&P did. The Sig 320 did OK and the military picked it up, but it had a few issues. Lastly the CZ P10C offered almost everything better than a Glock except that is was not “as” easy to disassembled, although better than the M&P, and XDM, and the magazines were expensive.
Glock finally went to changeable back straps and made a few other changes through the generation four series and then in my opinion came much closer to their advertised “Glock Perfection” with the generation five version where the trigger and accuracy improved and the mag well was flared. I have owned or do own all of the pistols mentioned above and have carried and/or competed with them. In my opinion, the CZP10C has come closest to being a so called Glock killer, but it has not overwhelmed Glock yet and probably will not. Its ergonomics are much better, its trigger much better and its accuracy much better, - but it is still a pain to disassemble and the magazines are expensive.
One of things I don’t care for on a Glock is the inability of make sure I can safely holster it if I have to do so without looking it into the holster. On my M&P I have a manual thumb safety that I can engage, and on the XDM I have a grip safety that I can engage by placing my thumb on the back of the slide when holstering. Granted, the CZP10C and Sig 320 do not have these either of these features, although I understand the SIG can be had with a manual thumb safety.
What would a pistol have to be in order to be a Glock Killer and could it be that without beating the Glock in all important areas such as ergonomics, initial purchase price, accuracy, trigger, cost of extra magazines and ease of disassembly. I think I may have found it – for me at least. Other than its ease of disassembly it exceeds the Glock in all areas, and has a couple of added features that I like. It is a new model so only time will tell if it is as rugged and reliable as a Glock, but its lineage has proven to be very rugged and reliable even if its parent company has had spotty quality control in the past.
What I have found has a great trigger with a short reset, a manual safety that does not have to be used, superior ergonomics and grip texturing, has inexpensive magazines, is very accurate, and is inexpensive to purchase. In addition this pistol can be converted to double action only by removing a part and up grading the striker spring to one just a little stronger – Glock striker springs work. Even the manufacture does not know their gun has this double action only feature.
Here is how I came to find this possible Glock Killer. A while back I needed something really small that held a decent number of rounds (9x19) and was cheap enough that if it got destroyed, turned out to be junk, or got lost/stolen, I would only be mildly miffed. One day while perusing the gun counter at Academy I found that they had a Taurus G2C on sale for $179. It held twelve rounds, was smaller and thinner than a Glock 26 and its predecessor, the G2, had gotten pretty good reviews – and it had a lifetime guarantee. I purchased it and have run at least 3K rounds through it with nary a hiccup or malfunction. It has a nice trigger and is accurate as all get out if I do my part. I can make a perfect score about 90% of the time on a Texas CHL practical test with this pistol at twice the distance and half the allotted time. I don’t think I could do that if it was not accurate and did not have a good trigger. I can do the same with my Glock 19, but the mushy trigger makes it a real challenge at 30 yards for the last ten rounds.
I came to really like this little G2C and ended up carrying it quite bit, but wished that I had a version that was more the size and capacity of the Glock 19 and still just as thin as the G2C. I even at one point emailed Taurus R&D and told them they needed a larger version of the G2C. I got a reply to my email with a “Thank you, we will take it into consideration”, only to see an advertisement for the new G3 in a gun magazine about two weeks later. Apparently they had already seen a market for what I had suggested long before I suggested it. I started checking You-Tube for G3 reviews and found plenty – all having good reviews.
The other day Academy finally started receiving G3s and they were on sale for $249, although the one I purchased actually ended up only costing me $149. I will explain that later. The G3 is essentially the same size as my Glock 19, but is thinner, has much better ergonomics, and a much better trigger. It came with one 15-round magazine and one 17-round magazine, which exactly the way I like to carry my G19 – the spare being a G17 magazine.
In my first range session I was very impressed by the accuracy, but I should not have been. The G2C had been very accurate also. Since this is a striker fired pistol with a drop safety that blocks the striker from going forward, and has a trigger safety like a Glock, I can choose to use or not to use the manual thumb safety. I do use it, but one could use it only to facilitate safer re-holstering and then thumb it off and carry it that way. This pistol does use a pre-cocked striker like the XDM, meaning its spring is completely compressed and the trigger just releases it. On a Glock the striker spring is only partially compressed then the trigger, when pressed to the rear, compresses it the rest of the way and then releases it at full compression. Almost a sort of weird double action - and a little like the plunger on a pin ball machine, if you’re old enough to remember those.
Dimensionally, the Glock 19, CZP10C and the Taurus G3 are almost exactly alike in length, width and height, down to the tenth of an inch and ounce, so no one is really the winner in these areas. It gets down to ergonomics, triggers and cost, and cost is where the Taurus G3 really wins out. The fit and finish is not as nice as the Glock in many respects and certainly not better that the CZP10C, but this does not seem to affect its ability to compete with the others where it really counts.
Is this pistol, that is far less expensive than a Glock, has a better trigger and ergonomics than a Glock, is as accurate as or more accurate than a Glock, and has a life time warranty going to be a “Glock Killer”? Time will tell, but it pretty much is for me. I will most likely sell most of my Glocks and keep only the G17 I use for GSSF matches and a G48 that I carry in certain situations. It is unlikely I will be purchasing any Glocks in the future.
This Taurus G3, as well and the G2C, have what Taurus refers to as second strike capability, meaning that if the round does not go off, a second pull of the trigger gives you a second try at via the same kind of operation a Glock uses. There is a paddle that is below the striker foot when the first single action attempt is made, but then rises up on the long second try stroke. It grabs the striker foot, moves it to near full spring compression and then releases it. It is a rather smooth and easy long stroke. Keep in mind that this second long pull of the trigger only takes the striker spring compression to about 90% of what it was with the first single action type trigger release. This still works because the primer should already have a pretty good dent in it from the first hit. This double strike feature is not something that I would be prone to use because due to many years of training and shooting, a failure to fire would result in a Roll, Tap and Rack even before I realized I was doing it. Sort of like pulling my hand away from a very hot surface. I don’t have to think to myself, “Gee that is very hot” and then pull my hand back – it just happens without really thinking about it. However, for someone that has been shooting double action revolvers for most of their life, this second strike maneuver might come more naturally.
However, what this does is offer an opportunity to turn the G3 or the G2C in a light Double Action Only (DOA) semi-automatic. All one has to do is disassemble, remove the single action sear, and install a slightly stronger striker spring. Since the striker springs are the same diameter as a Glock striker spring, the factory Glock spring will work and it appears that it is slightly stronger. If you need something even stronger then I am sure Wolff Springs could supply you with one. I have actually tried this on the G2C and had no misfires with three to four boxes of CCI Blazer, Monarch and Wolf ammunition. It is like having a slim 13 shot revolver with a light smooth trigger pull. The manual thumb safety still works in this configuration as does the drop safety and trigger safety. This might be an option for someone who has not been trained or practiced enough to keep their finger out of the trigger guard until a decision to shoot is made – meaning less chance of a negligent discharge helped along by a short single action trigger stroke.
Taurus is apparently unaware that the pistol can be converted to operate this way.
I would not have thought about until I read a post on some forum by a person who wanted to find some way to have the G2 carried in the long stroke double action mode and then have it convert to single action after the first shot. It was for safer carrying according to the poster and I believe he also wanted to leave the manual safety disengaged. I could see his point, but did not agree with it – I thought the pistol perfectly safe, as is, as long as you carried it in a holster. His solution, believe it or not, was to remove the slide, insert a cartridge into the chamber, and then very carefully put the slide back on without setting the striker back to its single action position where it would be after normally chambering the first round. That procedure in itself seemed a little unsafe to me, but that is what he wanted.
If Taurus wanted to, I believe they could install a small switch or pin that a person could use to move the single action sear out of the way, converting the pistol to DAO, but they would still need a little stronger striker spring – or a weaker striker rebound spring.
If you can find a range with a G3 in its rental fleet, I think you should give it a try. You might be pleasantly surprised. If the Taurus logo still puts you off, I suggest you view the many YouTube videos that rave about the G2C and now the G3. Taurus has stepped up their game and now producing some of their gun in Florida.
Why my Taurus G3 only cost me $149 and not $249. I work for a brewery that gives its employees two free cases of beer each month plus and extra six cases if we have safe quarter, and extra if you go a whole quarter without calling in sick. They hand out this beer once a month. I don’t really drink that much beer and we are allowed to gift or sell what we have in our que to other employees. I believe a case of beer goes for around $20. I had twenty-two cases in my que and was able to gift ten cases to a co-worker for $10 a case, which put me $100 towards a new fire stick. I don’t think he is an alcoholic, but I think he has a couple of retired relatives that are giving it a good try. Not everyone has this opportunity, but I thought someone might find it interesting how I got the price down to $149. I could have saved a little more if the G3s had arrived early enough to be purchased on Veterans Day when Academy was offering vets, police officers and first responders 5% off. I think this would be the pistol I would recommend to someone who cannot spend a lot of money for one and can’t put in a lot of trigger time.
I hear this term, “Glock Killer” from time to time and although I understood the concept, it puzzled me a bit in that if you built something just a good as a Glock, why would anyone change from something that they were familiar with to something unfamiliar with no added benefit. It would seem to me that the so called Glock Killer would have to do what the Glock does, but do it better to a degree that someone would consider changing – a few did, but most did not. The Glock has a number of things going for it such as it is rugged, reliable, easy to use, easy to disassemble, and magazines are inexpensive. What it had going against it is poor ergonomics, a mushy trigger pull, expensive for the materials and number of parts you get, and just so-so accuracy. As far as the accuracy issue, it was always my belief that this was due in large part to the trigger. I believe it was Colonel Coop that once said half or more of accuracy was the trigger – or something like that.
To the best of my memory the first so called Glock Killer was the Smith and Wesson M&P, followed by the Springfield XDM, the SIG 320, and lately the CZ P10C. I thought the M&P no better than a Glock except that it had better ergonomics and a few features Glock did not offer such as a manual safety, magazine out safety, and changeable grip panels. This was in deed enough to gain some converts and the fact that many police departments picked it up did not hurt. The Springfield XDM offered a better trigger, a grip safety and somewhat better ergonomics, but never seem to take off like the M&P did. The Sig 320 did OK and the military picked it up, but it had a few issues. Lastly the CZ P10C offered almost everything better than a Glock except that is was not “as” easy to disassembled, although better than the M&P, and XDM, and the magazines were expensive.
Glock finally went to changeable back straps and made a few other changes through the generation four series and then in my opinion came much closer to their advertised “Glock Perfection” with the generation five version where the trigger and accuracy improved and the mag well was flared. I have owned or do own all of the pistols mentioned above and have carried and/or competed with them. In my opinion, the CZP10C has come closest to being a so called Glock killer, but it has not overwhelmed Glock yet and probably will not. Its ergonomics are much better, its trigger much better and its accuracy much better, - but it is still a pain to disassemble and the magazines are expensive.
One of things I don’t care for on a Glock is the inability of make sure I can safely holster it if I have to do so without looking it into the holster. On my M&P I have a manual thumb safety that I can engage, and on the XDM I have a grip safety that I can engage by placing my thumb on the back of the slide when holstering. Granted, the CZP10C and Sig 320 do not have these either of these features, although I understand the SIG can be had with a manual thumb safety.
What would a pistol have to be in order to be a Glock Killer and could it be that without beating the Glock in all important areas such as ergonomics, initial purchase price, accuracy, trigger, cost of extra magazines and ease of disassembly. I think I may have found it – for me at least. Other than its ease of disassembly it exceeds the Glock in all areas, and has a couple of added features that I like. It is a new model so only time will tell if it is as rugged and reliable as a Glock, but its lineage has proven to be very rugged and reliable even if its parent company has had spotty quality control in the past.
What I have found has a great trigger with a short reset, a manual safety that does not have to be used, superior ergonomics and grip texturing, has inexpensive magazines, is very accurate, and is inexpensive to purchase. In addition this pistol can be converted to double action only by removing a part and up grading the striker spring to one just a little stronger – Glock striker springs work. Even the manufacture does not know their gun has this double action only feature.
Here is how I came to find this possible Glock Killer. A while back I needed something really small that held a decent number of rounds (9x19) and was cheap enough that if it got destroyed, turned out to be junk, or got lost/stolen, I would only be mildly miffed. One day while perusing the gun counter at Academy I found that they had a Taurus G2C on sale for $179. It held twelve rounds, was smaller and thinner than a Glock 26 and its predecessor, the G2, had gotten pretty good reviews – and it had a lifetime guarantee. I purchased it and have run at least 3K rounds through it with nary a hiccup or malfunction. It has a nice trigger and is accurate as all get out if I do my part. I can make a perfect score about 90% of the time on a Texas CHL practical test with this pistol at twice the distance and half the allotted time. I don’t think I could do that if it was not accurate and did not have a good trigger. I can do the same with my Glock 19, but the mushy trigger makes it a real challenge at 30 yards for the last ten rounds.
I came to really like this little G2C and ended up carrying it quite bit, but wished that I had a version that was more the size and capacity of the Glock 19 and still just as thin as the G2C. I even at one point emailed Taurus R&D and told them they needed a larger version of the G2C. I got a reply to my email with a “Thank you, we will take it into consideration”, only to see an advertisement for the new G3 in a gun magazine about two weeks later. Apparently they had already seen a market for what I had suggested long before I suggested it. I started checking You-Tube for G3 reviews and found plenty – all having good reviews.
The other day Academy finally started receiving G3s and they were on sale for $249, although the one I purchased actually ended up only costing me $149. I will explain that later. The G3 is essentially the same size as my Glock 19, but is thinner, has much better ergonomics, and a much better trigger. It came with one 15-round magazine and one 17-round magazine, which exactly the way I like to carry my G19 – the spare being a G17 magazine.
In my first range session I was very impressed by the accuracy, but I should not have been. The G2C had been very accurate also. Since this is a striker fired pistol with a drop safety that blocks the striker from going forward, and has a trigger safety like a Glock, I can choose to use or not to use the manual thumb safety. I do use it, but one could use it only to facilitate safer re-holstering and then thumb it off and carry it that way. This pistol does use a pre-cocked striker like the XDM, meaning its spring is completely compressed and the trigger just releases it. On a Glock the striker spring is only partially compressed then the trigger, when pressed to the rear, compresses it the rest of the way and then releases it at full compression. Almost a sort of weird double action - and a little like the plunger on a pin ball machine, if you’re old enough to remember those.
Dimensionally, the Glock 19, CZP10C and the Taurus G3 are almost exactly alike in length, width and height, down to the tenth of an inch and ounce, so no one is really the winner in these areas. It gets down to ergonomics, triggers and cost, and cost is where the Taurus G3 really wins out. The fit and finish is not as nice as the Glock in many respects and certainly not better that the CZP10C, but this does not seem to affect its ability to compete with the others where it really counts.
Is this pistol, that is far less expensive than a Glock, has a better trigger and ergonomics than a Glock, is as accurate as or more accurate than a Glock, and has a life time warranty going to be a “Glock Killer”? Time will tell, but it pretty much is for me. I will most likely sell most of my Glocks and keep only the G17 I use for GSSF matches and a G48 that I carry in certain situations. It is unlikely I will be purchasing any Glocks in the future.
This Taurus G3, as well and the G2C, have what Taurus refers to as second strike capability, meaning that if the round does not go off, a second pull of the trigger gives you a second try at via the same kind of operation a Glock uses. There is a paddle that is below the striker foot when the first single action attempt is made, but then rises up on the long second try stroke. It grabs the striker foot, moves it to near full spring compression and then releases it. It is a rather smooth and easy long stroke. Keep in mind that this second long pull of the trigger only takes the striker spring compression to about 90% of what it was with the first single action type trigger release. This still works because the primer should already have a pretty good dent in it from the first hit. This double strike feature is not something that I would be prone to use because due to many years of training and shooting, a failure to fire would result in a Roll, Tap and Rack even before I realized I was doing it. Sort of like pulling my hand away from a very hot surface. I don’t have to think to myself, “Gee that is very hot” and then pull my hand back – it just happens without really thinking about it. However, for someone that has been shooting double action revolvers for most of their life, this second strike maneuver might come more naturally.
However, what this does is offer an opportunity to turn the G3 or the G2C in a light Double Action Only (DOA) semi-automatic. All one has to do is disassemble, remove the single action sear, and install a slightly stronger striker spring. Since the striker springs are the same diameter as a Glock striker spring, the factory Glock spring will work and it appears that it is slightly stronger. If you need something even stronger then I am sure Wolff Springs could supply you with one. I have actually tried this on the G2C and had no misfires with three to four boxes of CCI Blazer, Monarch and Wolf ammunition. It is like having a slim 13 shot revolver with a light smooth trigger pull. The manual thumb safety still works in this configuration as does the drop safety and trigger safety. This might be an option for someone who has not been trained or practiced enough to keep their finger out of the trigger guard until a decision to shoot is made – meaning less chance of a negligent discharge helped along by a short single action trigger stroke.
Taurus is apparently unaware that the pistol can be converted to operate this way.
I would not have thought about until I read a post on some forum by a person who wanted to find some way to have the G2 carried in the long stroke double action mode and then have it convert to single action after the first shot. It was for safer carrying according to the poster and I believe he also wanted to leave the manual safety disengaged. I could see his point, but did not agree with it – I thought the pistol perfectly safe, as is, as long as you carried it in a holster. His solution, believe it or not, was to remove the slide, insert a cartridge into the chamber, and then very carefully put the slide back on without setting the striker back to its single action position where it would be after normally chambering the first round. That procedure in itself seemed a little unsafe to me, but that is what he wanted.
If Taurus wanted to, I believe they could install a small switch or pin that a person could use to move the single action sear out of the way, converting the pistol to DAO, but they would still need a little stronger striker spring – or a weaker striker rebound spring.
If you can find a range with a G3 in its rental fleet, I think you should give it a try. You might be pleasantly surprised. If the Taurus logo still puts you off, I suggest you view the many YouTube videos that rave about the G2C and now the G3. Taurus has stepped up their game and now producing some of their gun in Florida.
Why my Taurus G3 only cost me $149 and not $249. I work for a brewery that gives its employees two free cases of beer each month plus and extra six cases if we have safe quarter, and extra if you go a whole quarter without calling in sick. They hand out this beer once a month. I don’t really drink that much beer and we are allowed to gift or sell what we have in our que to other employees. I believe a case of beer goes for around $20. I had twenty-two cases in my que and was able to gift ten cases to a co-worker for $10 a case, which put me $100 towards a new fire stick. I don’t think he is an alcoholic, but I think he has a couple of retired relatives that are giving it a good try. Not everyone has this opportunity, but I thought someone might find it interesting how I got the price down to $149. I could have saved a little more if the G3s had arrived early enough to be purchased on Veterans Day when Academy was offering vets, police officers and first responders 5% off. I think this would be the pistol I would recommend to someone who cannot spend a lot of money for one and can’t put in a lot of trigger time.
