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Police: Father Protects Daughter, Shoots Alleged Intruder
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:40 am
by Paladin
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/14029873/detail.html
Police: Father Protects Daughter, Shoots Alleged Intruder
Jenn Dombrowski-KFOX News Weekend Producer
POSTED: 8:22 pm MDT September 1, 2007
UPDATED: 8:33 pm MDT September 1, 2007
CANUTILLO, Texas -- The El Paso County Sheriff's Office investigated a shooting in Canutillo Saturday morning.
It happened on the 800 block of Anthony Road early Saturday morning, when deputies said a 21-year-old man attempted to cause damage or commit a theft.
The woman who lived in the home called her father, who lives a few houses away.
He showed up with a handgun and confronted the 21-year old outside.
Deputies said the father fired a warning shot first, and fired at the man when the 21-year old charged after him.
The 21-year-old was hit in the chest.
He was taken to the hospital.
Deputies have not released the names of anyone involved.
They said charges are pending.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:08 am
by AFJailor
Maybe its just me, but firing a warning shot seems like its a bad idea, serves no purpose at all in my opinion. Plus, it just risks hurting someone innocent. If the BG doesnt feel "warned" by the sight of a gun then he deserves to get shot.
As for actually shooting the 21 yr old, i dont thinks there is really enough info here to determine if he was justified in using deadly force.
From what it sounds like, the guy was throwing a hissy fit outside, the dad comes along and instead of trying to talk the guy down he immediately escalated the situation. If it were me in that situation i would of gone over with my gun concealed, attempted to talk to the guy and if at some point i felt my life or my daughters life was in danger THEN and only then would i of drawn my weapon.
Once again, there really isnt enough info to really get a hold on the whole situation.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:12 am
by Skiprr
AFJailor wrote:Maybe its just me, but firing a warning shot seems like its a bad idea, serves no purpose at all in my opinion.
It's not just you.
In almost all urban situations, "warning shot" = "very bad idea."
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:36 am
by Dougmyers5
I would have shot him fist and then warned him!
Well maybe not but I would have to be in the shooters shoes to know what I would do so I will re-frame from passing judgment.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:05 pm
by HankB
Considering it was the shooter's daughter who called for help, this may be relevant, depending on what the shootee's actions actually were:
§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:33 pm
by Thane
I hadn't heard about this incident.
The story doesn't say whether the father attempted to reason with the BG, only that he fired two shots. He might have told the guy to clear off, and drawn the weapon when the BG refused. He might have shown up having already cleared leather. The "warning shot" might have been taken after the BG became belligerent towards him; it might have been what prompted the belligerence.
We don't know.
It doesn't even say whom the charges are pending against.
Let this one play out folks, we don't have the proper information to make judgment calls at this point.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:07 pm
by KD5NRH
HankB wrote:Considering it was the shooter's daughter who called for help, this may be relevant, depending on what the shootee's actions actually were:
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
Daughter or not, if you call someone and tell them there's a BG in the yard, it's not much of a stretch for them to reasonably believe you want them to do something about it.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:14 pm
by KD5NRH
AFJailor wrote:Maybe its just me, but firing a warning shot seems like its a bad idea, serves no purpose at all in my opinion. Plus, it just risks hurting someone innocent. If the BG doesnt feel "warned" by the sight of a gun then he deserves to get shot.
Maybe he wouldn't have been able to see the gun under the circumstances; most gun & light stances don't really concentrate on illuminating the gun for the BG's convenience. I could see, in certain circumstances, putting one in the dirt, but the part that gets me is the strong trend for people to shoot "in the air" or "over the BG's head" for a warning. IMO, blowing a crater in the dirt would be a lot scarier for the BG, and a lot less scary for anybody else downrange.
As for actually shooting the 21 yr old, i dont thinks there is really enough info here to determine if he was justified in using deadly force.
a so-called reporter wrote:It happened on the 800 block of Anthony Road early Saturday morning, when deputies said a 21-year-old man attempted to cause damage or commit a theft.
Deputies tend to work long shifts; when they say "early morning" it almost always means "before sunrise." Thus, criminal mischief during the night becomes the justification.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:15 pm
by Rokyudai
No warning shot. No firing in the air (did we already forget what happened to that poor child who was struck and killed by a shot in the air from a LEO no less?!!) This shows how a moment err in judgment can have dire consequences.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=9087
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:40 pm
by Liberty
Daughtor is inside calls the dad. Dad meets BG outside daughters home. What isn't clear is while daughter is inside what urgency was there that Dad couldn't wait for police.?
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:50 pm
by seamusTX
Liberty wrote:Daughtor is inside calls the dad. Dad meets BG outside daughters home. What isn't clear is while daughter is inside what urgency was there that Dad couldn't wait for police.?
From the quoted story:
Deputies said the father fired a warning shot first, and fired at the man when the 21-year old charged after him.
Shootee who has no right to be where he is or doing what he is doing charges a man that he knows has a firearm. Seems pretty clear.
- Jim
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:16 pm
by Liberty
seamusTX wrote:Liberty wrote:Daughtor is inside calls the dad. Dad meets BG outside daughters home. What isn't clear is while daughter is inside what urgency was there that Dad couldn't wait for police.?
From the quoted story:
Deputies said the father fired a warning shot first, and fired at the man when the 21-year old charged after him.
Shootee who has no right to be where he is or doing what he is doing charges a man that he knows has a firearm. Seems pretty clear.
There are lots of facts missing on this story and there could easily be something I'm missing. but as I read it. The BG charged after the "warning Shot". I think this might have played out different if there were no warning shot. We don't know when the cops were called either.
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:11 pm
by seamusTX
Liberty wrote:There are lots of facts missing on this story and there could easily be something I'm missing...
All these news stories are just rough drafts based on second- or third-hand hearsay.
- Jim
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:02 pm
by Jeremae
As in most of these posts from preliminary news stories, there really isn't enough info to say if shooter was justified but he appears to be IMHO.
As to warning shots, I have said it before and will repeat it now, "My first two shots to Your Center of Mass are a warning to Stop what you are doing or I'm gonna shoot you in the face"