TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:28 pm**

Is there a source or service for checking firearm serial numbers against stolen a stolen firearms data base?

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:37 pm**

Call your local sheriff's office they will normally do it for you.

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:56 pm**

You will need to go, in person, with the firearm to your local police department. Secure it in something, at the very least a paper bag. GO into the PD and speak to any cop. Tell him you just acquired a new firearm and would like it ran. He will either tell you to go get it, or escort you out to get it. He will go in the back room, and one of two things will happen.

1. It will come back clear and he wil lhand it back to you and you will be on your way

2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.

I do this for everything that I buy, even new guns. Gives the local guys here a chance to shoot the poo and hang out ad talk guns. Doesn't hurt to start a paper trail either...

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:34 pm**

BrassMonkey wrote:2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.

Why would you say this??? Even after going through the trouble to go personally (like you say) to a local Law Enforcement agency being up front about your intentions to make sure the "item" itself is "clean" so-to-speak...

I do this for everything that I buy, even new guns. Gives the local guys here a chance to shoot the poo and hang out ad talk guns. Doesn't hurt to start a paper trail either...

So in a sence, while you are "wearing steel" the guys get to "shoot the poo"??? Trying to investigate whether you are some sort of criminal for purchasing an item that "it" might have a history being used in a crime??? So that makes you a criminal???

Yes, I understand all about the issue of being in posession of stolen property, but that really doesn't stand up in this case...You didn't steal it, and the person you bought it from didn't either...It could be someone on this forum, so it'd be somewhat more of a trusted source I suppose...

When all you did is bring in an item you wish to confirm its status, and you're telling us this is a good thing/procedure to do...

You are not setting up a good precident for law-abiding citizens to do anything of the sort, with that kind of story...

I seriously doubt any person here who buys a firearm off of someone (other than out of the back of someones trunk) is going to be shackled if they take the gun to be checked out by Law Enforcement if there is a "hit" on it...

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:47 pm**

He didn't say how he acquired it. Obviously, he has a reason to think he needs to check it's record.

I also refuted calling anyoen on the phone. They require it to be done in person with you right there for the reasons you would think, it it DOES have a record, you aren't going anywhere. Now how fast your local agency works to investigate is up for debate.

Because at this point you have to be taken into custody and transported to the holding area. This is how we did it back in Florida anyway...

stevie_d_64 wrote:
BrassMonkey wrote:2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.
Why would you say this??? Even after going through the trouble to go personally (like you say) to a local Law Enforcement agency being up front about your intentions to make sure the "item" itself is "clean" so-to-speak...

***sigh*** Of course not. Let's use a wee bit of common sense here. Nothing I have ever purchased and had run has come back with a hit. I live in a hick town with like 4 cops. After the business is done, we go get a milkshake.
I do this for everything that I buy, even new guns. Gives the local guys here a chance to shoot the poo and hang out ad talk guns. Doesn't hurt to start a paper trail either...
So in a sence, while you are "wearing steel" the guys get to "shoot the poo"??? Trying to investigate whether you are some sort of criminal for purchasing an item that "it" might have a history being used in a crime??? So that makes you a criminal???

Yes, I understand all about the issue of being in posession of stolen property, but that really doesn't stand up in this case...You didn't steal it, and the person you bought it from didn't either...It could be someone on this forum, so it'd be somewhat more of a trusted source I suppose...

When all you did is bring in an item you wish to confirm its status, and you're telling us this is a good thing/procedure to do...

You are not setting up a good precident for law-abiding citizens to do anything of the sort, with that kind of story...

I seriously doubt any person here who buys a firearm off of someone (other than out of the back of someones trunk) is going to be shackled if they take the gun to be checked out by Law Enforcement if there is a "hit" on it...

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:09 pm**

BrassMonkey wrote:He didn't say how he acquired it. Obviously, he has a reason to think he needs to check it's record.

I also refuted calling anyoen on the phone. They require it to be done in person with you right there for the reasons you would think, it it DOES have a record, you aren't going anywhere. Now how fast your local agency works to investigate is up for debate.

Because at this point you have to be taken into custody and transported to the holding area. This is how we did it back in Florida anyway...

stevie_d_64 wrote:
BrassMonkey wrote:2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.
Why would you say this??? Even after going through the trouble to go personally (like you say) to a local Law Enforcement agency being up front about your intentions to make sure the "item" itself is "clean" so-to-speak...

***sigh*** Of course not. Let's use a wee bit of common sense here. Nothing I have ever purchased and had run has come back with a hit. I live in a hick town with like 4 cops. After the business is done, we go get a milkshake.

Common sense is a two way street...You're pretty lucky there, with all that you've purchased (over time) and had checked out through the system...

I assume, by your experience, that being in Law Enforcement gives you an automatic benefit of the doubt, over the common citizen doing the exact same thing??? For the same reasons??? The intent being above board, in seeking the truth???

Remember you are the one that said if a "hit" comes back on a gun a citizen brings in to be checked out...That citizen is going to wear steel for a while till someone figures something out...

FYI, I'm only interpreting what you are saying, I know what you mean, and common sense does prevail in the long run...

Just because someone (citizen, not law enforcement) brings in a gun to be checked out, for whatever reason, and for however they aquired that gun, is not indicative of that person ever committing a crime enough to be detained, arrested, or charged...A true criminal would not go through any of this at all...To me thats common sense...

***sigh***

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:15 pm**

Procedure supercedes personal feelings on investigatory matters, at least in my old county. If someone came in with a piece of stolen property, or property wanted in an investigation, they were detained until the detectives came in to question them and open a case.

In Texas, is it a requirement to be in possesion of stolen property to "knowingly" be in possesion?

stevie_d_64 wrote:
BrassMonkey wrote:He didn't say how he acquired it. Obviously, he has a reason to think he needs to check it's record.

I also refuted calling anyoen on the phone. They require it to be done in person with you right there for the reasons you would think, it it DOES have a record, you aren't going anywhere. Now how fast your local agency works to investigate is up for debate.

Because at this point you have to be taken into custody and transported to the holding area. This is how we did it back in Florida anyway...

stevie_d_64 wrote:
BrassMonkey wrote:2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.
Why would you say this??? Even after going through the trouble to go personally (like you say) to a local Law Enforcement agency being up front about your intentions to make sure the "item" itself is "clean" so-to-speak...

***sigh*** Of course not. Let's use a wee bit of common sense here. Nothing I have ever purchased and had run has come back with a hit. I live in a hick town with like 4 cops. After the business is done, we go get a milkshake.
Common sense is a two way street...You're pretty lucky there, with all that you've purchased (over time) and had checked out through the system...

I assume, by your experience, that being in Law Enforcement gives you an automatic benefit of the doubt, over the common citizen doing the exact same thing??? For the same reasons??? The intent being above board, in seeking the truth???

Remember you are the one that said if a "hit" comes back on a gun a citizen brings in to be checked out...That citizen is going to wear steel for a while till someone figures something out...

FYI, I'm only interpreting what you are saying, I know what you mean, and common sense does prevail in the long run...

Just because someone (citizen, not law enforcement) brings in a gun to be checked out, for whatever reason, and for however they aquired that gun, is not indicative of that person ever committing a crime enough to be detained, arrested, or charged...A true criminal would not go through any of this at all...To me thats common sense...

***sigh***

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:24 pm**

BrassMonkey wrote:In Texas, is it a requirement to be in possesion of stolen property to "knowingly" be in possesion?

As far as I can tell, possession of stolen property is not a crime in Texas.

I was quite surprised when I looked and couldn't find it.

As a general principle, criminal culpability requires an act to be done intentionally, recklessly, or with criminal negligence.

- Jim

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:28 pm**

Kewl

seamusTX wrote:
BrassMonkey wrote:In Texas, is it a requirement to be in possesion of stolen property to "knowingly" be in possesion?
As far as I can tell, possession of stolen property is not a crime in Texas.

I was quite surprised when I looked and couldn't find it.

As a general principle, criminal culpability requires an act to be done intentionally, recklessly, or with criminal negligence.

- Jim

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:30 pm**

P.S.: Unauthorized use of a motor vehicle (Texas's term for theft) is an exception to what I said.

Knowingly receiving stolen property would probably be criminal consipracy.

I would be interested in hearing what a lawyer or LEO has to say about this. I never worried about it because dealing in stolen property is not something I would do.

- Jim

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:14 pm**

BrassMonkey wrote:2. It will come back with a hit and guys with the guns, badges and boots will come out and you get to wear steel for awhile.

If a citizen goes in to have a gun serial number run voluntarily and it comes back as stolen, the officers will talk with you and take down all relevant information, INCLUDING the name and address of who you purchased the weapon from..... so make sure you have that information with you at the time.

The 'paper trail' began with you purchasing the weapon, so make sure the transaction is documented if you want to have the serial number run. After getting all the facts, Officers and/or Detectives will have your information on hand should they need to talk with you further, but their investigation will center on who you purchased the weapon from.

If the weapon comes back as stolen, the Police will be required to keep the weapon in Police custody until a final determination is made.

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:54 pm**

BrassMonkey wrote:Procedure supercedes personal feelings on investigatory matters, at least in my old county. If someone came in with a piece of stolen property, or property wanted in an investigation, they were detained until the detectives came in to question them and open a case.

If someone came in with a gun that came back stolen, I would definitely ask them to wait and get a statement from them on where they got the gun. I would also do it politely, since someone coming in that way is probably an honest person and not the thief. I want the statement so I can start trying to find the thief and build the case against him. I would not be handcuffing my witness since I am trying to get voluntary cooperation. If his statement makes it sound like I really do have the criminal I would let the person go and get a warrant after I have enough evidence to make the case. I find it hard to believe I would be able to make the case based on the initial visit.

In Texas, is it a requirement to be in possesion of stolen property to "knowingly" be in possesion?

In Texas, 31.03 of the Penal Code says it is theft to be in possession of stolen property that you know is stolen. If you do not know it is stolen, you are not guilty of any crime. A hint that it might be stolen is if the guy who sold it to you only asked 20 bucks for a $250 pistol.

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:16 pm**

srothstein wrote: In Texas, 31.03 of the Penal Code says it is theft to be in possession of stolen property that you know is stolen. If you do not know it is stolen, you are not guilty of any crime. A hint that it might be stolen is if the guy who sold it to you only asked 20 bucks for a $250 pistol.

How thin of a line is "suspecting" that something "might" be stolen to "knowing" it is stolen? Obviously, if you suspect it, it may be best to pass that information on to the police instead of making the purchase to begin with.

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:59 pm**

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:41 pm**

jason wrote:
srothstein wrote: In Texas, 31.03 of the Penal Code says it is theft to be in possession of stolen property that you know is stolen. If you do not know it is stolen, you are not guilty of any crime. A hint that it might be stolen is if the guy who sold it to you only asked 20 bucks for a $250 pistol.
How thin of a line is "suspecting" that something "might" be stolen to "knowing" it is stolen? Obviously, if you suspect it, it may be best to pass that information on to the police instead of making the purchase to begin with.

The problem is convincing the police, and maybe a jury, that you suspected but did not know. Some departments would take the statement of the price and argue to the jury that any reasonable person would have known that this must have been stolen to be sold for that price.

I agree that it is best to pass up some "deals" and let the police know instead of testing how much a jury needs to believe you knew instead of suspected.

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