Montana Question

[txglock21]

Please bear with me on this...I am looking at buying some land (about 20 acres) in Montana as a part-time home away from home for after I retire in about 8 years. I lived and hunted there for a year and a half when stationed in Great Falls, but that was about 30 years ago and haven't been back since. Anyway, my question: does anyone know what the qualifications of getting a "residential hunting license" are in Montana? Before anyone asks, yes I have searched Montana's Webpages and all they talk about is the prices between resident and non-resident, unlike Texas Parks & Wildlife which covers everything you can think of. My plan is to live in Texas about half the year and in Montana about half. I know in Texas you need to have permanent residence for at least 6 months (among some other exceptions like military, etc.) to qualify, but unsure about Montana. I don't plan to change driver license, etc. from Texas. I'm not trying to circumvent the system, but maybe a state ID from Montana would work? Me being able to get a hunting and fishing license is a BIG part of my decision on whether I pull the trigger on this or not. Any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[oohrah]

All I know is, you can only have one permanent residence. You'll have to decide whether it will be TX or MT, and then go resident or non-resident licenses accordingly. And each state will have probably differnt interpretations of what is meant by a permanent resident.

[txglock21]

Thanks oohrah for the response, but that's the question I'm trying to find out, basically what does Montana consider a "resident"? If I'm paying property taxes for Montana, I think I should qualify as a "resident" even if I don't live there year round. When I was stationed there, my "permanent residence" was Texas, but I got a Montana resident hunting license because of I was in the military and stationed there. Too old to go that route again.

[oohrah]

My only point was you can't be a resident of Montana if you still claim to be a resident of Texas. I don't think owning property has anything to do with it.

Of course, we're both just speculating. You really need to be talling to a Montana attorney.

[C-dub]

I don't think owning property has anything to do with it either. Since one can legally have only one drivers license that might be a factor, but I'd bet it comes down to what you tell the IRS. Especially with regards to state income taxes.

[loktite]

Here is an easy to read link http://www.taunyafagan.com/montana-residency/

For the purposes of Montana Fishing Licenses and Montana Hunting Licenses:

You are considered a Montana resident after having lived 180 consecutive days in Montana.
After establishing Montana residency, you must live in the state of Montana a minimum of 120 days a year.
Your principal home must be located in Montana.You must file Montana state income tax returns as a resident (if required to file).
Vehicles operated in Montana must be licensed and titled as required by Montana law.
You can be registered to vote only in the state of Montana.
You cannot claim residency in any other state or country for any purpose.
There are different requirements for members of the US armed forces. For more information, see Montana Codes Annotated 87-2-102 and the Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks.

looking up 87-2-102 subsection 7 has caveats that would allow a different state of residency, but wouldn't apply to you (you'll be retired!) http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/87/2/87-2-102.htm

87-2-102. Resident defined. In determining whether a person is a resident for the purpose of issuing resident hunting, fishing, and trapping licenses, the following provisions apply:
(1) (a) A member of the regular armed forces of the United States, a member's dependent, as defined in 15-30-2115, who resides in the member's Montana household, or a member of the armed forces of a foreign government attached to the regular armed forces of the United States is considered a resident for the purposes of this chapter if:
(i) the member was a resident of Montana under the provisions of subsection (4) at the time the member entered the armed forces and continues to meet the residency criteria of subsections (4)(b) through (4)(e); or
(ii) the member is currently stationed in and assigned to active duty in Montana, has resided in Montana for at least 30 days, and presents official assignment orders and proof of completion of a hunter safety course approved by the department, as provided in 87-2-105, or a certificate verifying the successful completion of a hunter safety course in any state or province. The 30-day residence requirement is waived in time of war. Reassignment to another state, United States territory, or country terminates Montana residency for purposes of this section, except that a reassigned member continues to qualify as a resident if the member's spouse and dependents continue to physically reside in Montana and the member continues to meet the residency criteria of subsections (4)(b) through (4)(e). The designation of Montana by a member of the regular armed forces as a "home of record" or "home of residence" in that member's armed forces records does not determine the member's residency for purposes of this section.
(b) A member of the regular armed forces of the United States who is otherwise considered a Montana resident pursuant to subsection (1)(a)(i) does not forfeit that status as a resident because the member, by virtue of that membership, also possesses, has applied for, or has received resident hunting, fishing, or trapping privileges in another state or country.
(2) A person who has physically resided in Montana as the person's principal or primary home or place of abode for 180 consecutive days and who meets the criteria of subsection (4) immediately before making application for any license is eligible to receive resident hunting, fishing, and trapping licenses. As used in this section, a vacant lot or a premises used solely for business purposes is not considered a principal or primary home or place of abode.
(3) A person who obtains residency under subsection (2) may continue to be a resident for purposes of this section by physically residing in Montana as the person's principal or primary home or place of abode for not less than 120 days a year and by meeting the criteria of subsection (4) prior to making application for any resident hunting, fishing, or trapping license.
(4) In addition to the requirements of subsection (2) or (3), a person shall meet the following criteria to be considered a resident for purposes of this section:
(a) the person's principal or primary home or place of abode is in Montana;
(b) the person files Montana state income tax returns as a resident if required to file;
(c) the person licenses and titles in Montana as required by law any vehicles that the person owns and operates in Montana;
(d) except as provided in subsection (1)(b), the person does not possess or apply for any resident hunting, fishing, or trapping licenses from another state or country or exercise resident hunting, fishing, or trapping privileges in another state or country; and
(e) if the person registers to vote, the person registers only in Montana.
(5) A student who is enrolled full-time in a postsecondary educational institution out of state and who would qualify for Montana resident tuition or who otherwise meets the residence requirements of subsection (2) or (3) is considered a resident for purposes of this section.
(6) An enrollee of a job corps camp located within the state of Montana is, after a period of 30 days within Montana, considered a resident for the purpose of making application for a fishing license as long as the person remains an enrollee in a Montana camp.
(7) A person who does not reside in Montana but who meets all of the following requirements is a resident for purposes of obtaining hunting and fishing licenses:
(a) The person's principal employment is within this state and the income from this employment is the principal source of the applicant's family income.
(b) The person is required to pay and has paid Montana income tax in a timely manner and proper amount.
(c) The person has been employed within this state on a full-time basis for at least 12 consecutive months immediately preceding each application.
(d) The person's state of residency has laws substantially similar to this subsection (7).
(8) An unmarried minor is considered a resident for the purposes of this section if the minor's parents, legal guardian, or parent with joint custody, sole custody, or visitation rights is a resident for purposes of this section. The minor is considered a resident for purposes of this section regardless of whether the minor resides primarily in the state or otherwise qualifies as a resident. The resident parent or guardian of the minor may be required to show proof of the parental, guardianship, or custodial relationship to the minor.
(9) A person is not considered a resident for the purposes of this section if the person:
(a) claims residence in any other state or country for any purpose; or
(b) is an absentee property owner paying property tax on property in Montana.
(10) A license agent is not considered a representative of the state for the purpose of determining a license applicant's residence status.

IANAL, but seems pretty clear cut that in your scenario, you will not be able to get a residential hunting license.

[WildBill]

Here is an easy to read link http://www.taunyafagan.com/montana-residency/

For the purposes of Montana Fishing Licenses and Montana Hunting Licenses:

You are considered a Montana resident after having lived 180 consecutive days in Montana.
After establishing Montana residency, you must live in the state of Montana a minimum of 120 days a year.
Your principal home must be located in Montana.You must file Montana state income tax returns as a resident (if required to file).
Vehicles operated in Montana must be licensed and titled as required by Montana law.
You can be registered to vote only in the state of Montana.
You cannot claim residency in any other state or country for any purpose.
There are different requirements for members of the US armed forces. For more information, see Montana Codes Annotated 87-2-102 and the Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks.

IANAL, but seems pretty clear cut that in your scenario, you will not be able to get a residential hunting license.

[txglock21]

Thank you loktite, that's exactly what I was looking for. I may still buy the property because it's such a good deal, but knowing that knocks it down several notches. Non-resident hunting licenses are about twice as much as Texas non-resident licenses. I was born a Texan and I will die a Texan, not giving that up. Thanks again for everyone's input.

[JALLEN]

Would you rather pay Montana state income taxes and get a resident hunting license, or pay Texas state income taxes and get a non-resident hunting license, and remain a Texan, which you are until Gabriel blows his horn anyway?

[txglock21]

Would you rather pay Montana state income taxes and get a resident hunting license, or pay Texas state income taxes and get a non-resident hunting license, and remain a Texan, which you are until Gabriel blows his horn anyway?

I really enjoy paying my Texas state income taxes. I have passed on the Montana land deal offered to me. I just wish I could find the same amount of acreage at the same price in Texas.

[The Annoyed Man]

A couple of friends of mine just relocated from SoCal to Helena, MT to to be near their son, DIL and grandmonkey. I checked it out on Google maps. Helena looks like a real nice little town. But I found that nearby properties (20+ acres) with a house on them were at least as expensive, if not more so, than prices I've seen in Texas.

[JALLEN]

I handled some title matters in Montana many years ago. In talking to the title company manager in that county, the talk turned to weather, activities, like ice fishing in the winter. He remarked about San Diego weather. I boldly asked what does one do in Montana during the summer. He said, "well, last summer we had a picnic."

[Oldgringo]

We've spent the past 5 summers in NW Montana on Flathead Lake. There ain't nothing cheap up here; especially, real estate and its resultant property taxes. For example, the $2.00 gasoline in Texas is $2.60 up here. The scenery and summer weather is gorgeous - sans forest fires. The Montanans are friendly, the ever increasing number of left coast implants not so much.

It snowed up topside last night and we have the heat on in the RV now. We're heading to the Pineywoods come Saturday. Five months is long enough in our modest RV....even in this paradise. We want to visit our modest house, our friends and our stuff....for a few months. Hopefully, we'll be back up here next summer?

[txglock21]

Well since I'm not getting it anyways, I will give some details...It was 25 acres with a very small one room cabin, about 50 miles from Billings for $26,000. Half is wooded and half open prairie like. Two sides next to it are BLM land. I can't find 5 acres of land in Texas for $26,000 that's not in a subdivision somewhere. Oh well, I will just keep day dreaming.

[VMI77]

Please bear with me on this...I am looking at buying some land (about 20 acres) in Montana as a part-time home away from home for after I retire in about 8 years.

I've been considering the same, and will do so if my son ends up living there.....how are the property prices for the kind of acreage you're looking at?