Break ins at Texas Ren Fest

[RJGold]

http://www.khou.com/story/news/crime/20 ... /76635918/

Saw this on the news tonight. While I simpathize with the guy, I don't leave weapons unsecured in my pickup...

My reason for posting is a question about 30.06 signage and parking lots. In the video, the victim states that he has the right to carry the weapons in his vehicle but the thieves don't have the right to break in and steal them. I'm with him on that. The news story then flashes a picture of what appears to be a 30.06 sign on a gate (too brief to see if it's a legal sign) and says the management of the Texas Ren Fest prohibits weapons on their property (i'm paraphrasing here). Can they legally prohibit weapons on their property (i.e. parking lots) with a 30.06 sign? I thought 30.06 was meant to address carrying under your CHL? What about the MPA?

[ScottDLS]

You can't be prosecuted if you leave gun in the car, but they can prohibit you from carrying outside your your car w/ 30.06.

[Glockster]

http://www.khou.com/story/news/crime/20 ... /76635918/

Saw this on the news tonight. While I simpathize with the guy, I don't leave weapons unsecured in my pickup...

My reason for posting is a question about 30.06 signage and parking lots. In the video, the victim states that he has the right to carry the weapons in his vehicle but the thieves don't have the right to break in and steal them. I'm with him on that. The news story then flashes a picture of what appears to be a 30.06 sign on a gate (too brief to see if it's a legal sign) and says the management of the Texas Ren Fest prohibits weapons on their property (i'm paraphrasing here). Can they legally prohibit weapons on their property (i.e. parking lots) with a 30.06 sign? I thought 30.06 was meant to address carrying under your CHL? What about the MPA?

The sign in the video is probably the sign that is at the actual entrance -- the point where you walk through the gate. There is no other 30.06 sign there that I've ever seen.

[puma guy]

It's hard to tell where the sign is located, but a handgun in a car is legal under MPA, a 30.06 sign is meaningless.

[JP171]

there are several signs there, they are legal cause I have measured them. they of course cannot stop you from carrying in your car, your RV or your tent. Terre Albert is from up north and is a democrat anti gun douche like a lot of the rennies. George Collum is also a life long democrat and agrees with this policy and I have told both of them to suck eggs. I do obey the law but I don't like it. The reason the LEO had his weapon stolen was that there are undesirables there in the parking area and the leo's who patrol the parking area cannot be everywhere at once and he was seen to un arm by some unsavory individual. he posted on the TRF facebook page as well of the page of some of the clans at TRF. yes it is wrong I want to know why a LEO left his weapon in the first place, they don't actually check, there are no metal detectors or pat downs...so why ?

[RJGold]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I appreciate the responses.

[Glockster]

there are several signs there, they are legal cause I have measured them. they of course cannot stop you from carrying in your car, your RV or your tent. Terre Albert is from up north and is a democrat anti gun douche like a lot of the rennies. George Collum is also a life long democrat and agrees with this policy and I have told both of them to suck eggs. I do obey the law but I don't like it. The reason the LEO had his weapon stolen was that there are undesirables there in the parking area and the leo's who patrol the parking area cannot be everywhere at once and he was seen to un arm by some unsavory individual. he posted on the TRF facebook page as well of the page of some of the clans at TRF. yes it is wrong I want to know why a LEO left his weapon in the first place, they don't actually check, there are no metal detectors or pat downs...so why ?

I've only seen the sign at the entrance ways. Did they have them elsewhere?

I grumble about the sign every time, and I would wonder if his costume may have had anything to do with leaving his weapon. Regardless of them not wanding, I would be hard pressed to carry even if there was no sign as my kilt doesn't really support carry, and "concealed" takes on a whole new meaning when in full kilt!

[rbwhatever1]

One rifle and two handguns seems like the bare minimum to me when out and about venturing into hoard territory. Personally I would throw in a 12 gauge with 40 rounds of 3" Magnum 00B just because. Which reminds me I need to grab a sling for my Mini-14...


"Crosby got some interesting responses to his Facebook post, many people wondering why he had so many firearms in his vehicle."

[JP171]

there are several signs there, they are legal cause I have measured them. they of course cannot stop you from carrying in your car, your RV or your tent. Terre Albert is from up north and is a democrat anti gun douche like a lot of the rennies. George Collum is also a life long democrat and agrees with this policy and I have told both of them to suck eggs. I do obey the law but I don't like it. The reason the LEO had his weapon stolen was that there are undesirables there in the parking area and the leo's who patrol the parking area cannot be everywhere at once and he was seen to un arm by some unsavory individual. he posted on the TRF facebook page as well of the page of some of the clans at TRF. yes it is wrong I want to know why a LEO left his weapon in the first place, they don't actually check, there are no metal detectors or pat downs...so why ?

I've only seen the sign at the entrance ways. Did they have them elsewhere?

I grumble about the sign every time, and I would wonder if his costume may have had anything to do with leaving his weapon. Regardless of them not wanding, I would be hard pressed to carry even if there was no sign as my kilt doesn't really support carry, and "concealed" takes on a whole new meaning when in full kilt!

I have never had a problem carrying in any of my kilts, good belt. but yea they have them at the entrance to the campgrounds and the front entrance as well as at the main gate. there are also a lot of 51% signs that of course are not legal but hey at the second beer booth past the gate who cares LOL

[Keith B]

I have never had a problem carrying in any of my kilts, good belt. but yea they have them at the entrance to the campgrounds and the front entrance as well as at the main gate. there are also a lot of 51% signs that of course are not legal but hey at the second beer booth past the gate who cares LOL

What makes you say the 51% signs are not legal? It is possible that the vendor(s) has the whole Ren Fest site as their 'premises', and they make more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales, which would make it valid. A good example is a vendor who runs a bar in a bowling alley. They can state the 'premises' for consumption is the whole bowling alley, but because they hold the liquor license and make more than 51% of their revenue from sale of alcohol, the whole bowling alley is off limits. It has nothing to do with the total income of the location, just the income of the business that holds the liquor license for on-premise consumption.

[Pariah3j]

I have never had a problem carrying in any of my kilts, good belt. but yea they have them at the entrance to the campgrounds and the front entrance as well as at the main gate. there are also a lot of 51% signs that of course are not legal but hey at the second beer booth past the gate who cares LOL

What makes you say the 51% signs are not legal? It is possible that the vendor(s) has the whole Ren Fest site as their 'premises', and they make more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales, which would make it valid. A good example is a vendor who runs a bar in a bowling alley. They can state the 'premises' for consumption is the whole bowling alley, but because they hold the liquor license and make more than 51% of their revenue from sale of alcohol, the whole bowling alley is off limits. It has nothing to do with the total income of the location, just the income of the business that holds the liquor license for on-premise consumption.

But wouldn't including the entire 'premises' as the premises in which is off limits - shouldn't that include all of the income for the 'premises' if there are multiple entities operating in the premises ? I don't see how some sub/tenet of a business who makes more then 51% somehow make the rest of the business (that when combined does not do 51%) somehow make the premises a legal 51% location.

edit: unless you are talking about the individual shops area in Ren Fest as being their 'premises' - that I agree could be upheld because they are renting the 'building' and have their own individual liquor licence (I believe).

[JP171]

I have never had a problem carrying in any of my kilts, good belt. but yea they have them at the entrance to the campgrounds and the front entrance as well as at the main gate. there are also a lot of 51% signs that of course are not legal but hey at the second beer booth past the gate who cares LOL

What makes you say the 51% signs are not legal? It is possible that the vendor(s) has the whole Ren Fest site as their 'premises', and they make more than 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales, which would make it valid. A good example is a vendor who runs a bar in a bowling alley. They can state the 'premises' for consumption is the whole bowling alley, but because they hold the liquor license and make more than 51% of their revenue from sale of alcohol, the whole bowling alley is off limits. It has nothing to do with the total income of the location, just the income of the business that holds the liquor license for on-premise consumption.

Keith, if that were the case then when I talked to the enforcement office they would have said that. Also if that were the case then children would not be allowed there un escorted and those between the ages of 18 and 21 would also be refused entry. none of these things are true also the limits on the few 51% locations state the booth number and the map indicates only the booth location. I had the improper 51% signs removed last faire season, ergo the whole "park" doesn't qualify as 51% also there are booths inside that sell food and beer that have the signs and tabc indicates blue, so no not valid. so sorry sir

[Keith B]

Keith, if that were the case then when I talked to the enforcement office they would have said that. Also if that were the case then children would not be allowed there un escorted and those between the ages of 18 and 21 would also be refused entry. none of these things are true also the limits on the few 51% locations state the booth number and the map indicates only the booth location. I had the improper 51% signs removed last faire season, ergo the whole "park" doesn't qualify as 51% also there are booths inside that sell food and beer that have the signs and tabc indicates blue, so no not valid. so sorry sir

Sorry, not correct. There is no Texas law that states a minor cannot enter a 51% location; they just can't purchase or consume. They can't enter a package liquor store without a parent or guardian, but a bar is not legally off-limits to a minor, but might be prohibited by the business from 'house rules'. Here is the info from TABC https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/faq/general.asp

AGE REQUIREMENTS
...........
4. May a minor enter the premises where a license or permit is issued?
Generally yes, if he does not possess or consume an alcoholic beverage. A minor may not enter the premises of a package store unless accompanied by an adult parent, spouse or guardian. A licensee or permittee may have a “house rule” that minors may not enter their licensed premises.

As for the 'premises' defined for a vendor, that is up to the TABC and vendor agreement when they issue the license. There are some vendors at Ren Fest that have BLUE licenses, and there are 2 that have RED licences. As far as what they have defined, it may well be just the booth area for that RED vendor, but only the TABC can tell you what area they have designated as their 'premises'. Just search the TABC database here http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx and enter 21778 for the Street Number and Todd Mission for the city and you will see that the JOUST AREA BEER & CIGAR BAR and THE QUAD are both RED venues.

HOWEVER, they CAN designate an area larger than what they actually own, and ergo make the whole location off-limits for carry, just as i described in the bowling alley scenario above.

Now, if there was no 30.06 prohibition and you could carry, let's assume the RED vendors DID get the whole park defined as legal premises for consumption. The question would be 'Does that make the whole park off limits if I buy from a BLUE vendor?' Not sure who would trump who. Could you buy from a BLUE vendor and be legal across the park, and if you bought a beer from a RED vendor, not be legal? You for sure would not be legal carrying into the premise area of the RED vendor, but if they got the whole park defined, you might be illegally carrying the minute you entered. You WOULD have the defense to prosecution if they didn't have a 51% sign at the entrance and not posted where you enter their premises.

SO, until we know for sure what the premise definition is, we can't assume that the whole park is not defined for the RED vendors.

Confusing, ain't it??