OK to Draw on a Gun Snatcher?

[Beiruty]

IF SOMEONE TRIES TO TAKE MY PISTOL AWAY FROM ME I WILL CONSIDER THAT A THREAT TO MY PERSON AND I WILL USE DEADLY FORCE TO PREVENT THAT PERSON FROM TAKING MY PISTOL AWAY FROM ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome aboard, please do not type while CAPS is on. As per internet etiquette, it is considered shouting.

[SA_Steve]

how many !!!'s can I use ?

[oljames3]

how many !!!'s can I use ?

Two is my limit. Any more and I get sleepy.

[AJSully421]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

[tbryanh]

I am just guessing, and I don't have any inside information on the subject, but I think gun grabs against LEOs are probably done by people the LEOs are detaining. The detainees are grabbing the guns to help them escape. It appears clear in this situation the officer's life is in danger and that the officer is justified in shooting the detainee with his BUG.

Gun grabs against CHLers are probably much different. The snatcher is probably not trying to escape detainment. The snatcher might typically be a purse snatcher or shoplifter who sees an opportuninty to snatch a gun from a CHLer who is printing and appears to be unaware of his surroundings. I doubt the gun snatcher intends to shoot anyone, but I would not want to find out the hard way that he does.

I think that pulling out the BUG and turning around is the correct reaction, but the situation must be assessed before pointing the gun at someone or shooting someone.

Gun grabs against CHLers are probably rare. I have not heard of anyone on this forum reporting that their gun was snatched from them while it was concealed. (I have not been on this forum long though.) I am new to CHL, and I worry that someone might snatch my pistol. This fear might be healthy as it probably keeps me aware that I need to conceal my pistols well, be aware of my surroundings, and avoid physical activities that cause printing.

[Beiruty]

I am just guessing, and I don't have any inside information on the subject, but I think gun grabs against LEOs are probably done by people the LEOs are detaining. The detainees are grabbing the guns to help them escape. It appears clear in this situation the officer's life is in danger and that the officer is justified in shooting the detainee with his BUG.

Gun grabs against CHLers are probably much different. The snatcher is probably not trying to escape detainment. The snatcher might typically be a purse snatcher or shoplifter who sees an opportuninty to snatch a gun from a CHLer who is printing and appears to be unaware of his surroundings. I doubt the gun snatcher intends to shoot anyone, but I would not want to find out the hard way that he does.

I think that pulling out the BUG and turning around is the correct reaction, but the situation must be assessed before pointing the gun at someone or shooting someone.

Gun grabs against CHLers are probably rare. I have not heard of anyone on this forum reporting that their gun was snatched from them while it was concealed. (I have not been on this forum long though.) I am new to CHL, and I worry that someone might snatch my pistol. This fear might be healthy as it probably keeps me aware that I need to conceal my pistols well, be aware of my surroundings, and avoid physical activities that cause printing.

Your assumption of "grab and run" is unreasonable. When someone has your gun he has the deadly force, not you.
tbryanh, this is not an attack against you...

Please someone lock up this thread. It is nonsense what people think the law is or is not. Opinions do not matter in court of law . Application of the law and facts do matter.

[tbryanh]

I did leave out the idea of retrieving stolen property, which is legal in Texas. I think it was made clear earlier in this thread that lethal force is probably justified to be used to retrieve the stolen pistol. The gun snatcher is armed at that point, and the CHLer knows that he is armed. There is probably no way to retrieve the pistol except by using lethal force.

[rotor]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

Not long ago the Chicago police showed a video of a BG running from police with a gun in hand. He never turned around but while running away took a shot backwards and hit a LEO. They were using this video to show that a fleeing suspect with a gun can still kill the chasing LEO. Therefore I would conclude that someone running away with a stolen gun could still cause serious bodily injury or death and that it would not be "murder" to shoot.

[AJSully421]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

Not long ago the Chicago police showed a video of a BG running from police with a gun in hand. He never turned around but while running away took a shot backwards and hit a LEO. They were using this video to show that a fleeing suspect with a gun can still kill the chasing LEO. Therefore I would conclude that someone running away with a stolen gun could still cause serious bodily injury or death and that it would not be "murder" to shoot.

I agree if someone is shooting at you you can shoot back at them... even shooting them in the back. But in my example, you and the guy are wrestling for your retained handgun, you shove him off of you, you still have your handgun, you draw on him and shoot while he is unarmed and running away... that is murder.

Now, if he snatches your primary and runs away and you pull a BUG, sure, go to town.

[rotor]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

Not long ago the Chicago police showed a video of a BG running from police with a gun in hand. He never turned around but while running away took a shot backwards and hit a LEO. They were using this video to show that a fleeing suspect with a gun can still kill the chasing LEO. Therefore I would conclude that someone running away with a stolen gun could still cause serious bodily injury or death and that it would not be "murder" to shoot.

I agree if someone is shooting at you you can shoot back at them... even shooting them in the back. But in my example, you and the guy are wrestling for your retained handgun, you shove him off of you, you still have your handgun, you draw on him and shoot while he is unarmed and running away... that is murder.

Now, if he snatches your primary and runs away and you pull a BUG, sure, go to town.

I agree with what you are saying now. I thought the BG was running away with your primary gun and you had a BUG that you were pulling.

[Beiruty]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

Not long ago the Chicago police showed a video of a BG running from police with a gun in hand. He never turned around but while running away took a shot backwards and hit a LEO. They were using this video to show that a fleeing suspect with a gun can still kill the chasing LEO. Therefore I would conclude that someone running away with a stolen gun could still cause serious bodily injury or death and that it would not be "murder" to shoot.

I agree if someone is shooting at you you can shoot back at them... even shooting them in the back. But in my example, you and the guy are wrestling for your retained handgun, you shove him off of you, you still have your handgun, you draw on him and shoot while he is unarmed and running away... that is murder.

Now, if he snatches your primary and runs away and you pull a BUG, sure, go to town.

Have you heard about a person called George Zimmerman?

[mojo84]

What if one still has posession of his gun but feels like the guy trying to take it away has the upper hand due to size, strength or physical superiority? Is there justification to use deadly force? What about pulling the gun in an effort to create the apprehension that deadly force will be used if the bad guy doesn't relent?

Just because I e pulls their gun doesn't mean that have to pull the trigger.

[FastCarry]

If you feel your life or others' are in danger, save it/them. Is pretty cut and dry.

Seriously, these uncertainties are not legal questions, they are a matter of personal boundaries. Read the law, understand the law, then decide for yourself what line has to be crossed before you react with use of force.

[AJSully421]

Someone actively taking, or attempting to take, your pistol is a lethal force situation. Why? The answer is simple. What would a reasonable person think is going to happen next? A reasonable person would believe that the person who just stole a pistol is going to use it to cause serious bodily injury or death to the gun owner or an innocent third party. Clearly articulate that to any jury and you should be OK.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he decides to stop and run away, then shooting him at that point is murder.

If you shove the guy off of you, and while you are drawing your pistol, he regains his footing and comes barreling at you, shoot until he stops.

Not long ago the Chicago police showed a video of a BG running from police with a gun in hand. He never turned around but while running away took a shot backwards and hit a LEO. They were using this video to show that a fleeing suspect with a gun can still kill the chasing LEO. Therefore I would conclude that someone running away with a stolen gun could still cause serious bodily injury or death and that it would not be "murder" to shoot.

I agree if someone is shooting at you you can shoot back at them... even shooting them in the back. But in my example, you and the guy are wrestling for your retained handgun, you shove him off of you, you still have your handgun, you draw on him and shoot while he is unarmed and running away... that is murder.

Now, if he snatches your primary and runs away and you pull a BUG, sure, go to town.

I agree with what you are saying now. I thought the BG was running away with your primary gun and you had a BUG that you were pulling.

Well, you are right because having two guns was the OP's original premise. I projected my situation because I only carry a G19 and a spare mag, no BUG. I wear cowboy boots, but have been thinking of wearing some other shoes and ankle carry a G26 as a bug. But I REALLY like wearing boots.