Store signage

[Hot Dawg]

Went into the corner store by my house today & when I drove up & parked on left side of entrance which is more to the left side of the building I noticed they had a 30.07 sign up on the windows about eye level & on left side of the entrance, so I looked to the right of the door & there was no 30.06 sign, walked in & got what I needed & left, as I was driving through the parking lot to the right that is when I noticed the 30.06 sign about 25 feet from the doorway, there was no way to notice this sign if parked to the left of entrance. Is this legal?

[troglodyte]

It's not illegal. The law says the sign must be in a "conspicuous" place, which is up to judge and jury to decide. Of course now that you have seen it you have been provided with effective notice.

Bummer

[dhoobler]

Be sure to make an entry at texas3006.com.

[jerry_r60]

Went into the corner store by my house today & when I drove up & parked on left side of entrance which is more to the left side of the building I noticed they had a 30.07 sign up on the windows about eye level & on left side of the entrance, so I looked to the right of the door & there was no 30.06 sign, walked in & got what I needed & left, as I was driving through the parking lot to the right that is when I noticed the 30.06 sign about 25 feet from the doorway, there was no way to notice this sign if parked to the left of entrance. Is this legal?

It is "legal" for them to post the sign wherever they like. If your question is "Does this sign make it illegal to carry in the place", that's different question. It may/may not stand up in court should you be prosecuted for not paying attention to it.

[Pariah3j]

My understanding is that its not enforceable if it isn't posted on all entrances. So if 30.07 is on one entrance, and 30.06 is on the other, you just have to be choosy which door you enter through (I re-read this, I'm not talking about double doors, I know several corner stores that have multiple/separated entrances, and that is what I'm referring too and think this is what jerry is talking about as well)

There has been some discussion about that more recently, some think even if posted improperly, and it was discovered you have a gun on you, the cops would still ticket/arrest you since we all know they are so well informed of the law. So I guess this comes down to personal opinion.

[TVGuy]

Went into the corner store by my house today & when I drove up & parked on left side of entrance which is more to the left side of the building I noticed they had a 30.07 sign up on the windows about eye level & on left side of the entrance, so I looked to the right of the door & there was no 30.06 sign, walked in & got what I needed & left, as I was driving through the parking lot to the right that is when I noticed the 30.06 sign about 25 feet from the doorway, there was no way to notice this sign if parked to the left of entrance. Is this legal?

It is "legal" for them to post the sign wherever they like. If your question is "Does this sign make it illegal to carry in the place", that's different question. It may/may not stand up in court should you be prosecuted for not paying attention to it.

I'm not advocating breaking the law, but let's remember that IF you got caught CCing it would be a class C misdemeanor with a max $200 fine. No prosecution, no standing up in court. My guess is that the charge would be thrown out pretty quickly if you showed them a picture of where the sign was when you entered.

[Mel]

My understanding is that its not enforceable if it isn't posted on all entrances. So if 30.07 is on one entrance, and 30.06 is on the other, you just have to be choosy which door you enter through

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

[Pariah3j]

My understanding is that its not enforceable if it isn't posted on all entrances. So if 30.07 is on one entrance, and 30.06 is on the other, you just have to be choosy which door you enter through

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

Yep - I get their wording/requirements a little mixed up - they are so close, but just different enough.

[crewsn]

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

since when is it not a requirement? I wasn't aware of that change.

[JP171]

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

since when is it not a requirement? I wasn't aware of that change.

its never been a requirement of 30.06 to be posted at ALL entries

[Hot Dawg]

The store only has one entrance. I went to submit it on texas3006 & someone already put it on their but with only the 30.07, so they missed the 30.06 sign also. I added it to the comments

[thetexan]

It's not illegal. The law says the sign must be in a "conspicuous" place, which is up to judge and jury to decide. Of course now that you have seen it you have been provided with effective notice.

Bummer

Exactly.

Here's an example. A mall could put up a 60ft billboard on one side of its parking lot that has the 30.06 verbiage printed in English and Spanish in 2 foot letters.

It is on the mall's property. It is certainly conspicuous. And is clearly visible to the public. If you don't notice it on the other side of the mall too bad. According to 30.06 you have been notified. Remember there is no requirement for you to see a sign in the list of items that specify notification.

So until an appellate court interprets that for us you will be at the mercy of the trial court and jury to accept any defense that a sign was not "conspicuous" enough.

tex

[crewsn]

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

since when is it not a requirement? I wasn't aware of that change.

its never been a requirement of 30.06 to be posted at ALL entries

maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean by requirement then. why would the 30.06 not be required at all entrances to be enforceable where as the 30.07 would? don't the signs have to be posted at each respective entrance in order to give lawful notice?

[JP171]

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

since when is it not a requirement? I wasn't aware of that change.

its never been a requirement of 30.06 to be posted at ALL entries

maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean by requirement then. why would the 30.06 not be required at all entrances to be enforceable where as the 30.07 would? don't the signs have to be posted at each respective entrance in order to give lawful notice?

no where in 30.06 does it say posted at all entries it just says conspicuously posted however in 30.07 it says posted at all entrances so the requirement exists for 30.07 but not 30.06

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property

[Dad24GreatKids]

30.07 must be posted at all entrances. 30.06 does not have that requirement.

since when is it not a requirement? I wasn't aware of that change.

its never been a requirement of 30.06 to be posted at ALL entries

maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean by requirement then. why would the 30.06 not be required at all entrances to be enforceable where as the 30.07 would? don't the signs have to be posted at each respective entrance in order to give lawful notice?

no where in 30.06 does it say posted at all entries it just says conspicuously posted however in 30.07 it says posted at all entrances so the requirement exists for 30.07 but not 30.06

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(1) “Entry” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) “License holder” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: “Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property

It would be great if during the next legislative session the 30.06 law was changed to require posting at all entrances.