Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

Post Reply

Surgeon
Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: Baytown

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#61

Post by Surgeon » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:25 am

I'd prefer to see the "WHOLE" video in its entirety and not just the cherry picked, edited/redacted version. but this is all we're allow to see? Perhaps we'd see, post shooting, where he was in fact carrying or going for a gun or not. After all, this "IS" the most transparent administration evah?
The military arsenal we will use to fight a World War IV ..... "stones" - Einstein


Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#62

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:28 am

Javier730 wrote:
parabelum wrote:As he approaches the blockade, Mr. Finicum clearly swerves to the left to avoid colliding with the patrol units.
His brake pedal would of worked better at avoiding the collision.
The road looked a bit icy.

The vehicles not being in the road would have worked even better at avoiding a collision.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

User avatar

Javier730
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 25
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#63

Post by Javier730 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:29 am

mojo84 wrote:It appears to me he reached for something under his jacket on the left side. I am on my phone and the picture is small but I think he could have been carrying a gun in the cross draw position and he reached for it.

Has it been reported there was a gun on him and where it was?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016 ... /79490322/
"Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow," Bretzing said. "Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket. At this time, OSP troopers shot Finicum."
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 30
Posts: 8998
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#64

Post by mojo84 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:31 am

Surgeon wrote:I'd prefer to see the "WHOLE" video in its entirety and not just the cherry picked, edited/redacted version. but this is all we're allow to see? Perhaps we'd see, post shooting, where he was in fact carrying or going for a gun or not. After all, this "IS" the most transparent administration evah?

Did you see the video posted by AndyC.

To the guys that quoted me previously, I agree. That's why I said it "appears" and qualified my comments noting I was on my phone looking at a small screen. I made no definitive statements or determinations. I appreciate your response but I do think we need to look at this stuff objectively and not through the tainted lens that the cops are always wrong and there's a big conspiracy and cover-up behind every event.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 30
Posts: 8998
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#65

Post by mojo84 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:43 am

Bearing Arms carried the same story about him reaching for something in his left pocket.

http://bearingarms.com/fbi-plane-captur ... ums-death/
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 24
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#66

Post by VMI77 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:54 am

Javier730 wrote:
parabelum wrote:As he approaches the blockade, Mr. Finicum clearly swerves to the left to avoid colliding with the patrol units.
His brake pedal would of worked better at avoiding the collision.
Oh come on....they were ambushed...they set up the roadblock around a curve, in conditions of ice and snow. Brakes often don't work too well in those conditions.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com

User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 24
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#67

Post by VMI77 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:05 pm

mojo84 wrote:Bearing Arms carried the same story about him reaching for something in his left pocket.

http://bearingarms.com/fbi-plane-captur ... ums-death/
It quotes a disingenuous article from USA Today. If he was shot by OSP officers what is the point of saying in the article that FBI agents don't wear body cameras?

It also says the girl in the car was lying, yet I'm reading some analysts saying that the vehicle clearly was being fired into. Let's see photos of the truck....all windows intact and no bullet holes...then we can conclude the witness was lying.

If the FBI didn't have a proven history of lying...at which they've been caught multiple times...and killing unarmed people like Randy Weaver's wife, then I'd be a lot more inclined to believe their version of events without conclusive evidence.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 30
Posts: 8998
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#68

Post by mojo84 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:08 pm

Here are some comments from one of the militia occupiers that was there. His comments do not support the ambush conspiracy or that he was shot in cold blood unjustly.

http://www.allenbwest.com/2016/01/watch ... w-details/
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 30
Posts: 8998
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#69

Post by mojo84 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:15 pm

VMI77 wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bearing Arms carried the same story about him reaching for something in his left pocket.

http://bearingarms.com/fbi-plane-captur ... ums-death/
It quotes a disingenuous article from USA Today. If he was shot by OSP officers what is the point of saying in the article that FBI agents don't wear body cameras?

It also says the girl in the car was lying, yet I'm reading some analysts saying that the vehicle clearly was being fired into. Let's see photos of the truck....all windows intact and no bullet holes...then we can conclude the witness was lying.

If the FBI didn't have a proven history of lying...at which they've been caught multiple times...and killing unarmed people like Randy Weaver's wife, then I'd be a lot more inclined to believe their version of events without conclusive evidence.
If his truck and windows are full of bullet holes as you seem to suspect, some conspiracy theorists say over 100 shots were fired into the can of the truck, how did all the other people in the cab of the truck come out without any bullet holes in them?

At least try to be somewhat objective.

Again, I do not have enough facts to definitively say it was justified and you do not have enough to say it wasn't.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 24
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#70

Post by VMI77 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:20 pm

mojo84 wrote:Here are some comments from one of the militia occupiers that was there. His comments do not support the ambush conspiracy or that he was shot in cold blood unjustly.

http://www.allenbwest.com/2016/01/watch ... w-details/
First off, we don't need anyone's comments to know if it was an ambush....the video released by the FBI shows unequivocally that it was an ambush. They set up a road block around a curve in the ice and snow and were laying in wait. They had officers stationed in the surrounding woods, and snipers. Whether there was any intent to kill anyone or not, it was still an ambush.

Secondly, McConnell did not actually see what happened, so he's not a witness. Furthermore, he said Finicum was shot after charging the officers, and one thing the video does show is that Finicum didn't charge the officers. McConnell has also admitted he didn't see what happened....but somehow that admission isn't included in the article at the link. So, while I can't call McConnell a liar, anyone using his "charged the officers" statement without including the fact that he didn't see what happened and has said so is being dishonest.

Thirdly, the FBI had informants among the militia members. We don't know how many there were or who they are. McConnell could be one, and if he is, there is no reason to believe anything he says that isn't backed up by hard evidence.
Last edited by VMI77 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com


parabelum
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 30
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:22 pm

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#71

Post by parabelum » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:22 pm

I find it very odd that FBI released aerial footage before police dash cam footage has been released.

More information here:

http://viewpointsofasagittarian.com/bre ... mony-here/


If you did what was done to this man, you'd likely be facing serious charges. This man was executed, for at most losing his balance in snow. Very calculated shot placement to ensure he wouldn't survive.
And yes, he had gun on him, as do I and most on here. If I stumbled in snow and my hands went down briefly to regain my balance, do I deserve to be put down like an animal?
Do you?

"Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee."
Credendo Vides

User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 24
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#72

Post by VMI77 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:25 pm

mojo84 wrote:
VMI77 wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Bearing Arms carried the same story about him reaching for something in his left pocket.

http://bearingarms.com/fbi-plane-captur ... ums-death/
It quotes a disingenuous article from USA Today. If he was shot by OSP officers what is the point of saying in the article that FBI agents don't wear body cameras?

It also says the girl in the car was lying, yet I'm reading some analysts saying that the vehicle clearly was being fired into. Let's see photos of the truck....all windows intact and no bullet holes...then we can conclude the witness was lying.

If the FBI didn't have a proven history of lying...at which they've been caught multiple times...and killing unarmed people like Randy Weaver's wife, then I'd be a lot more inclined to believe their version of events without conclusive evidence.
If his truck and windows are full of bullet holes as you seem to suspect, some conspiracy theorists say over 100 shots were fired into the can of the truck, how did all the other people in the cab of the truck come out without any bullet holes in them?

At least try to be somewhat objective.

Again, I do not have enough facts to definitively say it was justified and you do not have enough to say it wasn't.
I don't suspect one way or the other, and I haven't said it wasn't justified. I said you can't draw a conclusion from the video that was released.

#1, I said let's see photos of the truck. Then there won't have to be suspicion, it either will or will not show signs of being shot. #2, conspiracy theorists don't say over 100 shots were fired, they're reporting the statement of the woman in the truck. She is an 18 year old woman who has never been shot at before, so IF shots were directed into the truck it would not surprise me that she grossly overestimated the number. #3, according to her statement they were all laying on the floorboards and were somewhat sheltered by the angle of the shots...AND one of them WAS wounded:
Group leader Ammon Bundy's brother, Ryan, was also shot in the arm during the incident.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -stop.html

The Daily Mail article is a far from objective report about what happened and it doesn't explain how Ryan Bundy was wounded in the truck if only three shots were fired and all were at Finicum (as the FBI claimed initially...but I note no shot count in in the artilce).

And let me repeat, based on their previous conduct and lies, there is ZERO reason to trust anything the FBI says without hard evidence to back it up.
Last edited by VMI77 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com


Papa_Tiger
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 689
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#73

Post by Papa_Tiger » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:33 pm

Look at the portion 12:18 into the video. The front windshield of the truck in the snow exhibits crazing and puffs of smoke generally indicative of breaking glass. This generally wouldn't just happen on its own and says to me that the vehicle was fired upon.

As for when he was shot, the distance is too far away in the video to to really see what is happening. He could have stumbled, or he could have been going for a gun. Kind of hard to tell at that distance.

User avatar

Javier730
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 25
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#74

Post by Javier730 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:36 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Javier730 wrote:
parabelum wrote:As he approaches the blockade, Mr. Finicum clearly swerves to the left to avoid colliding with the patrol units.
His brake pedal would of worked better at avoiding the collision.
The road looked a bit icy.

The vehicles not being in the road would have worked even better at avoiding a collision.
VMI77 wrote:
Javier730 wrote:
parabelum wrote:As he approaches the blockade, Mr. Finicum clearly swerves to the left to avoid colliding with the patrol units.
His brake pedal would of worked better at avoiding the collision.
Oh come on....they were ambushed...they set up the roadblock around a curve, in conditions of ice and snow. Brakes often don't work too well in those conditions.
I can see him take the last bend on the road and I appears he noticed the vehicles on the road at about 9:01. That is when you can see his brake lights come on. He taps his brakes a few times between 9:01-9:05. He then rides the brake from 9:12 and on as he hits the snow. If the road was a bit too icy for his brakes to work, he had plenty of time to pull into the snow and it didnt have to be right in front of the road block.

Yes its true there would be no collision had there not been vehicles blocking the road, but the fact is there was vehicles on the road and those vehicles were legally placed there by LEOs. Not trying to get through police who are obviously blocking the road would have been the best choice. I dont believe he intended on stopping. I believe he was going to avoid the road block and try to get away.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann


Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: Militia standoff going on right now in Oregon!

#75

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:40 pm

mojo84 wrote:I appreciate your response but I do think we need to look at this stuff objectively and not through the tainted lens that the cops are always wrong and there's a big conspiracy and cover-up behind every event.
We are talking about a government agency that has been shown to be dishonest in the past. When dealing with a known liar, it is not biased or tainted to assume that they might be lying yet again. It is logical.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”