Klebold's mother breaks her silence

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Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#1

Post by mojo84 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:22 pm

Of course there was some anti gun messages. However, there was some good info that needs to be shared and warnings to heed.
Last edited by mojo84 on Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks ber silence

#2

Post by FCH » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:15 am

Worth watching - thank you mojo84 for posting the link
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks ber silence

#3

Post by Richbirdhunter » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:08 am

It was a good interview
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#4

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:36 pm

It was a good interview. I'm not so sure that the gun-related messages were quite "anti" gun, simply because the points made were mostly things that we can mostly agree on - and that was about the general need to keep guns out of the hands of (unsupervised) children, and criminals. The only thing that most people - 2nd Amendment advocates and gun-control advocates alike - disagree on is how society ought to go about implementing those things.... not whether or not they are necessary. Whether you take the most libertarian or most statist viewpoint, there is general consensus on the concept of keeping guns out of the hands of (unsupervised) children and (violent) criminals. One can argue whether or not a farm-raised 12 year old who takes a .22 rifle to go squirrel hunting on the property is unsupervised, or whether or not someone busted for possession of weed ought to have their RKBA terminated; but few people with brains would say that a child ought to be allowed to take their daddy's 9mm to school for show and tell, or that a convicted murderer with gangland ties ought to be able to buy and possess a firearm.

Even in the part where they talked about how Dylan Klebold's girlfriend bought the guns for them at a gun show, Diane Sawyer didn't really delve into the politics surrounding gun show purchases..... although it was subtextually implied to some extent that control over that is needed. So even there, it could have been far more pro-gun control than it was. Maybe I missed something, but I thought it was pretty even-handed overall.

Col. Dave Grossman has a LOT to say about the influence of violent video games - particularly 1st person shooter games - on the psychology of adolescent and young adult men. My own son was (and continues to be to a somewhat lesser extent) quite a gamer growing up, and he played a lot of those kinds of games. It did bother me a bit at first, but more because he was spending more time indoors than I thought he should. I tried to balance my duties as a father and guiding figure with some respect for his own decision-making abilities. My counter to those games was to A) drag him out of the house to do things with me like fishing, shooting, mountain-bike riding, etc; and B) to make sure that he stayed grounded in reality regarding those games. I even questioned him directly a few times about it..... "Son, you DO realize, don't you, that nothing in those games translates to real life, and that human life has a higher value than that placed upon it by those games?" Those kinds of questions led to some great conversations with him, which often ended up with him seeking mentoring from me and other older men on the responsibilities of a sheepdog - he having recognized himself as one.

My heart does break for Ms. Klebold and her ex-husband though. Like her, I would like to think that if there were something seriously psychologically wrong with my son when he was growing up, I would know. I'm sure my wife feels the same way. And we were very close, the three of us, and continue to be. But Ms. Klebold's experience does show that this "knowledge" of our own children can sometimes be a fantasy. I have seen any number of times where friends from church - good solid Christian families who raise their kids in the knowledge of Jesus Christ - painfully watch their children walk away from faith as they enter adulthood.... sometimes to return later, but sometimes never ....either becoming atheists, or descending into some really spiritually dark stuff. To someone who sincerely believes; who does everything they can to try and nurture that belief in their children; who believes that in death, those who believe will be eternally separated from those who do not; there can be no more painful thing than for a believing parent to face the possibility of eternal separation from his or her own children.

The Klebold's have lost one of their boys to something really dark, and we don't ever find out from the video what ultimately happened with their other son who struggled with drug addiction. It is not surprising that their marriage did not survive Columbine.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#5

Post by MechAg94 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:04 pm

2nd Amendment advocates and gun-control advocates alike - disagree on is how society ought to go about implementing those things.... not whether or not they are necessary.
I think this likely applies to most people, but I think the primary movers of the anti-gun movement most certainly would eliminate the 2nd Amendment entirely if they could. They have said as much.

I guess I'll watch that video later on.

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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

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Post by Jusme » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:19 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:It was a good interview. I'm not so sure that the gun-related messages were quite "anti" gun, simply because the points made were mostly things that we can mostly agree on - and that was about the general need to keep guns out of the hands of (unsupervised) children, and criminals. The only thing that most people - 2nd Amendment advocates and gun-control advocates alike - disagree on is how society ought to go about implementing those things.... not whether or not they are necessary. Whether you take the most libertarian or most statist viewpoint, there is general consensus on the concept of keeping guns out of the hands of (unsupervised) children and (violent) criminals. One can argue whether or not a farm-raised 12 year old who takes a .22 rifle to go squirrel hunting on the property is unsupervised, or whether or not someone busted for possession of weed ought to have their RKBA terminated; but few people with brains would say that a child ought to be allowed to take their daddy's 9mm to school for show and tell, or that a convicted murderer with gangland ties ought to be able to buy and possess a firearm.

Even in the part where they talked about how Dylan Klebold's girlfriend bought the guns for them at a gun show, Diane Sawyer didn't really delve into the politics surrounding gun show purchases..... although it was subtextually implied to some extent that control over that is needed. So even there, it could have been far more pro-gun control than it was. Maybe I missed something, but I thought it was pretty even-handed overall.

Col. Dave Grossman has a LOT to say about the influence of violent video games - particularly 1st person shooter games - on the psychology of adolescent and young adult men. My own son was (and continues to be to a somewhat lesser extent) quite a gamer growing up, and he played a lot of those kinds of games. It did bother me a bit at first, but more because he was spending more time indoors than I thought he should. I tried to balance my duties as a father and guiding figure with some respect for his own decision-making abilities. My counter to those games was to A) drag him out of the house to do things with me like fishing, shooting, mountain-bike riding, etc; and B) to make sure that he stayed grounded in reality regarding those games. I even questioned him directly a few times about it..... "Son, you DO realize, don't you, that nothing in those games translates to real life, and that human life has a higher value than that placed upon it by those games?" Those kinds of questions led to some great conversations with him, which often ended up with him seeking mentoring from me and other older men on the responsibilities of a sheepdog - he having recognized himself as one.

My heart does break for Ms. Klebold and her ex-husband though. Like her, I would like to think that if there were something seriously psychologically wrong with my son when he was growing up, I would know. I'm sure my wife feels the same way. And we were very close, the three of us, and continue to be. But Ms. Klebold's experience does show that this "knowledge" of our own children can sometimes be a fantasy. I have seen any number of times where friends from church - good solid Christian families who raise their kids in the knowledge of Jesus Christ - painfully watch their children walk away from faith as they enter adulthood.... sometimes to return later, but sometimes never ....either becoming atheists, or descending into some really spiritually dark stuff. To someone who sincerely believes; who does everything they can to try and nurture that belief in their children; who believes that in death, those who believe will be eternally separated from those who do not; there can be no more painful thing than for a believing parent to face the possibility of eternal separation from his or her own children.

The Klebold's have lost one of their boys to something really dark, and we don't ever find out from the video what ultimately happened with their other son who struggled with drug addiction. It is not surprising that their marriage did not survive Columbine.

Well said TAM, I too had issues with my son playing violent video games, and I took a similar approach with him, we are very active in Scouting (he is only awaiting his board of review to make eagle) He was required to finish any and all chores and schoolwork before playing, we also had discussions regarding the fantasy/reality differences, He was also required to maintain at least a B average or the games were to be put away until his grades improved. ( I never had to carry out this threat, he has been an A honor roll student since first grade) and I had to let him beat me at least once a month on his game of choice (this was easy, I suck at everything but WII golf) but it did give us fun time together, and me an opportunity to evaluate the content of the games.

I have also seen the heartbreak of parents whose children have completely drifted away from their upbringing, and I have yet to really discover a common link, sometimes it's the influence of friends, sometimes simple rebellion taken to the extreme, and others there is no known causation. I hope and pray everyday that my son doesn't lose his way, he is very level headed, intelligent and caring of others, but I know how tenuous those attributes are when he has to take on real world issues.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#7

Post by mojo84 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:30 pm

As far as my anti-gun comment, I just noted I detected some. If I recall correctly, it was actually the FBI profiler that gave me more of the anti gun vibe. Plus, I was trying to head off the hardcore all or nothing folks that would refuse to listen to any part of the interview because it was on a mainstream news network and something was mentioned that isn't 100% pro gun and 2nd Amendment.

I think the most important message in this video is that parents need to be closely involved and in tune with their kids. Parents need to be aware of what is actually going on in their kid's lives rather than just seeing what a parent wants to see. It can be very hard to recognized something bad in a loved one if one doesn't want to see it.

Seems like my effort to head off the derailing of the thread ended up accomplishing what I was trying to avoid. :oops:
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#8

Post by fickman » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:53 pm

My unscientific hypothesis is that video games are a bigger influence than movies as they put the player into the action and the player becomes an active participant. I don't think they have a negative impact on everybody who plays them, but I definitely believe that they could have a major impact on somebody with an underlying mental health issue.

I dabbled in first person shooters in junior high and high school and payed a lot of them in college and the few years after college. I was never at risk, but when you spend a lot of your free time playing them, my experience is that they do influence the way you see the world. When playing Grand Theft Auto for long periods of time, I might be driving around town and notice people leaving themselves susceptible to a car-jacking. When playing a lot of Counter Strike, I'd automatically notice the sniper lines of sight when I entered an office or college building. I wasn't thinking anything more than "This would make a cool custom map for the game."

I can see how somebody with a mental health issue could be absorbed into that world and lose the separation of reality and fantasy. There's also probably a reverse cause-and-effect situation. As stated, violent video games may negatively influence somebody with a mental health disorder. In addition, though, people with social or mental issues may be naturally drawn to the escape of reality provided by first person shooters or role playing games. In his manifesto, Elliot Rodger (the Santa Barbara shooter) admittedly wasted several years playing World of Warcraft obsessively. He had many other psychological problems, and my unprofessional opinion is that the video games weren't a driver for his behavior.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#9

Post by WildBill » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:05 pm

fickman wrote:My unscientific hypothesis is that video games are a bigger influence than movies as they put the player into the action and the player becomes an active participant. I don't think they have a negative impact on everybody who plays them, but I definitely believe that they could have a major impact on somebody with an underlying mental health issue.
I have not watched the interview yet, but it is on my short list.
My unscientific hypothesis is that this would apply to any obsessive behavior that alienates the participant from reality.
Whether it is movies, TV, music, video games, social media, chat rooms, blogs, replacing interactions with real people and real situations is going to have negative effects on his mental health.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#10

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:56 pm

mojo84 wrote:As far as my anti-gun comment, I just noted I detected some. If I recall correctly, it was actually the FBI profiler that gave me more of the anti gun vibe. Plus, I was trying to head off the hardcore all or nothing folks that would refuse to listen to any part of the interview because it was on a mainstream news network and something was mentioned that isn't 100% pro gun and 2nd Amendment.

I think the most important message in this video is that parents need to be closely involved and in tune with their kids. Parents need to be aware of what is actually going on in their kid's lives rather than just seeing what a parent wants to see. It can be very hard to recognized something bad in a loved one if one doesn't want to see it.

Seems like my effort to head off the derailing of the thread ended up accomplishing what I was trying to avoid. :oops:
Nah.... you're good to go. I just didn't think it was that bad, is all. But you're right, that FBI profiler definitely had an agenda. I took note of her response to the word "spiritual", when she said that, since it was neither a legal nor scientific term, she refused to address it in her profiling. And yet, a spiritual life is a MAJOR component of the psychology of an enormous percentage of her fellow citizens.....regardless of what their spiritual views are, they have them. But for her, it's a nonentity. She'll go far in government "service". :roll:
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#11

Post by mojo84 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:17 pm

TAM, I caught what she said about the spirtuality as well. It's interesting how some separate people from their beliefs when what one believes is a huge part of what makes the person.
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

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Post by FCH » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:52 pm

I believe the spirituality question was actually put to Ms Klebold as, "Do you believe in evil?" It is kind of like asking, "Is Satan real?" I personally believe in the existence of Satan but I don't think I could answer, "Did Satan make the Columbine shooters act?"
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Re: Klebold's mother breaks her silence

#13

Post by mojo84 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:06 pm

FCH wrote:I believe the spirituality question was actually put to Ms Klebold as, "Do you believe in evil?" It is kind of like asking, "Is Satan real?" I personally believe in the existence of Satan but I don't think I could answer, "Did Satan make the Columbine shooters act?"

I'll have to rewatch it as I thought the profiler addressed that.
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