Question about straw purchase

[uthornsfan]

Is it a straw purchase if a family member, who lives in another state, is placing a order with a manufacturer for a number of firearms and orders one for me, then has his FFL ship to my FFL and I pay for the FFL transfer, and then pay my family member for the purchase price?

From what I understand, because I am not prohibited from owning firearms, and because we are doing a legal FFL transfer this is not a problem.

Regards for any IANAL info/comments :)

[G.A. Heath]

As long as he never receives the firearm himself (IE fills out a 4473 for it) then it should not be a straw purchase. If he does fill out a 4473 for it then he must answer that he is the actual buyer in ord er for the sale to proceed and it does become a straw purchase at that point.

[parabelum]

Not a lawyer, but apparently this is the modus operandi for prosecution:

"False Statement in Purchase of a Firearm (18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6)) Count (No.) of the indictment charges the defendant (name) with making a false statement in connection with the purchase (acquisition) of a firearm, which is a violation of federal law.

In order to find the defendant guilty of this offense, you must find that the government proved each of the following four elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

First: That (seller) was a licensed [(dealer) (collector) (importer) (manufacturer)];

Second: That (name) [(made a false statement) (used false identification)] while acquiring a firearm from (seller);

Third: That (name) knew that [(the statement) (the identification)] was false; and

Fourth: That the false (statement) (identification) was intended or likely to deceive (seller) with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale of the firearm."


http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/sites/ca3/f ... isions.pdf

Since you posted on a public forum, I'd bet proving #3 would be relatively easy.

[goose]

Is it a straw purchase if a family member, who lives in another state, is placing a order with a manufacturer for a number of firearms and orders one too many, then has his FFL ship to my FFL and I pay for the FFL transfer, and then pay my family member for the purchase price?

From what I understand, because I am not prohibited from owning firearms, and because we are doing a legal FFL transfer this is not a problem.

Regards for any IANAL info/comments :)

I fixed your question. I am confident that this is how you intended to ask it. :-) He purchase it for himself. Realized after the purchase that he already had too many redundancies in that caliber/action type. Decided to sell one to you with legal and documented FFL procedures followed.

[Abraham]

I have no interest in doing a straw man purchase.

That said, what I buy a gun for myself and later gift it to my wife, or someone else.

Have I then broken the law i.e., made a straw purchase?

[FastCarry]

I have no interest in doing a straw man purchase.

That said, what I buy a gun for myself and later gift it to my wife, or someone else.

Have I then broken the law i.e., made a straw purchase?

Its the intent when purchasing the gun. If you intently purchase a gun to transfer it to someone else, you've lied on the form when it asks you if you are purchasing this gun for yourself.

[G.A. Heath]

The 4473 actually addresses the issue of purchasing for giving as a gift, and they are legal.

[ScottDLS]

I have no interest in doing a straw man purchase.

That said, what I buy a gun for myself and later gift it to my wife, or someone else.

Have I then broken the law i.e., made a straw purchase?

Its the intent when purchasing the gun. If you intently purchase a gun to transfer it to someone else, you've lied on the form when it asks you if you are purchasing this gun for yourself.

You ARE purchasing it FOR YOURSELF, to give as a gift, you are not straw purchasing it. It's not illegal to purchase a gun to give as a gift

[Abraham]

My question: If at the time I buy a gun strictly for me and "later" gift it to someone else as I either eventually found I didn't like it, or bought a different gun that I liked better or, or, or, (who cares why) and then gift it, have I broken the straw man law?

Sorry, but the answers up to now didn't seem to address my question or I'm too thick to understand....could go either way.

Hey, I'm old and bent....

[parabelum]

I have no interest in doing a straw man purchase.

That said, what I buy a gun for myself and later gift it to my wife, or someone else.

Have I then broken the law i.e., made a straw purchase?

I think that you are in the clear there, based in the linked article.

Main difference is that your intent when you purchased the gun was not to be an agent for someone, you bought it for yourself.

Later, you gifted the gun to your relative, knowing that he/she is not otherwise prohibited from owning a gun. No different then private party sale in my opinion, where FFL is not required.

You could just "sell" the gun to relative for $.01.

http://www.guns.com/2013/12/12/gifting-guns-need-know/

[Jusme]

The 4473 actually addresses the issue of purchasing for giving as a gift, and they are legal.

This is how I purchased my son'e Eagle Scout rifle.

[mr1337]

If you are paying someone back for purchasing a firearm for you, it is a straw purchase.

[Scott B.]

The straw purchase takes place when the buyer, purchases the firearm--with the other person's money--does the transfer, and then passes that firearm on that person. The line of thinking used to insert "prohibited" in front of "person," but that 2014 court ruling says otherwise and hinged on the money source.

Edit. Actually, in that case the firearm never entered the first person's possession, it was transferred from FFL to FFL and the man's uncle was the transferee (but he sent his nephew a check). As a gift it would have been fine.

[Abraham]

parabelum,

Excellent explanation!

[Oldgringo]

I thought the "straw Purchase" concept/penalty was aimed at a person who purchases a gun for someone that person knows is not legally allowed to purchase their own?