More on HB 1815

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:43 pm

A non-CHL asked me a question that I believe relates to HB 1815 and the use of deadly force.

HB 1815 says a non-CHL can have a handgun in the car as long as it's not in plain view and the person is not engaged in criminal activity, and can legally posses the handgun and not a gang member.

If I were a non-CHL and were within 10 feet of my car and someone starts coming at me and it's obvious this person intends harm, can I run to my car to get my pistol and defend myself? Wouldn't I be UCW if I were outside my car? Would the UCW be dropped or ignored f the use of deadly force was authorized?

Thanks.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:49 pm

You are committing UCW as soon as you reveal the handgun, or if you step out of the car with it concealed.

If you are justified in using deadly force, the DA would probably consider the defense of necessity, unless it was one of those DAs who think their job is to charge everyone with everything possible.

This brings up one of the potential problems with H.B. 1815: People who don't have CHLs may not understand the justifications for use of deadly force and other issues that are covered in the CHL course.

- Jim

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:48 pm

seamusTX wrote:You are committing UCW as soon as you reveal the handgun, or if you step out of the car with it concealed.

If you are justified in using deadly force, the DA would probably consider the defense of necessity, unless it was one of those DAs who think their job is to charge everyone with everything possible.

This brings up one of the potential problems with H.B. 1815: People who don't have CHLs may not understand the justifications for use of deadly force and other issues that are covered in the CHL course.

- Jim

What he said.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:54 pm

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

- Jim

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:16 pm

Cool. If the use of deadly force is authorized, I could still be charged with UCW but unlikely. Thanks.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:39 pm

propellerhead wrote:Cool. If the use of deadly force is authorized, I could still be charged with UCW but unlikely.

Given that you could be charged with murder, aggravated assault, or deadly conduct (all felonies), UCW is small change.

I am still not a lawyer.

- Jim

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Next question....

SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a
Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as
defined by Section 71.01.

In plain view appears in (a-1) which applies to those *in* a motor vehicle. For those that are directly en route to their vehicle, can the weapon be in plain view? If I were an apartment dweller and I walk from my apartment unit to my car, can my handgun be fully exposed?

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:21 pm

propellerhead wrote:Next question....

In plain view appears in (a-1) which applies to those *in* a motor vehicle. For those that are directly en route to their vehicle, can the weapon be in plain view? If I were an apartment dweller and I walk from my apartment unit to my car, can my handgun be fully exposed?

Doesn't sound right to me. It is pretty clear that at some point you would draw unwanted attention to yourself. Especially since you can't carry openly in TX even WITH a CHL.

I would keep it concealed throughout.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:25 pm

propellerhead wrote:In plain view appears in (a-1) which applies to those *in* a motor vehicle. For those that are directly en route to their vehicle, can the weapon be in plain view? If I were an apartment dweller and I walk from my apartment unit to my car, can my handgun be fully exposed?

The precise wording of the law says that you are not required to conceal a handgun while en route from your residence to your vehicle.

Common sense says it would be unwise to carry openly in that case. This new law is going to be subject to legal contests for a while, and you don't want to be a participant in that.

- Jim

propellerhead · Post by **propellerhead** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:30 pm

frankie_the_yankee wrote:Doesn't sound right to me. It is pretty clear that at some point you would draw unwanted attention to yourself. Especially since you can't carry openly in TX even WITH a CHL.

I would keep it concealed throughout.

seamusTX wrote:The precise wording of the law says that you are not required to conceal a handgun while en route from your residence to your vehicle.

Common sense says it would be unwise to carry openly in that case. This new law is going to be subject to legal contests for a while, and you don't want to be a participant in that.

- Jim

Right, I won't be the test case. I have my CHL and I will carry concealed. No sense in drawing attention.

I was just studying the bill and that caught my attention. Questions regarding HB 1815 are popping up like crazy on a local car forum I read. I've been trying to answer them to the best of my knowledge. I'd hate to see a sudden increase in UCW.