Arsenal?

Commander · Post by **Commander** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:26 pm

Standoff end in man's arrest; arsenal found (Dallas Morning News 9-4-07)

Harold Rayburn Williams, 64, was arrested on suspicion of discharging a firearm within city limits early Monday after barricading himself inside his home with a small arsenal of firearms. He may face additional charges, police said. Police were called to Mr. William's home about 9pm Sunday in the 8500 block of Stonebrook Court just off Eagle Mountain Lake after receving reports that he was threatening to shoot anyone who approached his home. Officers approached the door and knocked, but then heard someone fire a gun. A stand-off ended about 1:40am Monday when tactical officers persuaded Mr. Williams to surrender. Police seized six rifles, a shotgun, and two handguns from his home, as well as small amounts of methamphetamine and marijuana.

If that's all it takes to have "an arsenal" then a bunch of us qualify.

Tim the Teacher · Post by **Tim the Teacher** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:28 pm

I read that today as well. I can think of a few people who could classify their closets as armory's if he had an arsenal.

mr surveyor · Post by **mr surveyor** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:39 pm

"If that's all it takes to have "an arsenal" then a bunch of us qualify"

guilty

lrb111 · Post by **lrb111** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:40 pm

That pretty much exposes the journalist. If that is what composes an arsenal, then how many arsenals do we have. I think I have three.
Do I count my wife's, or is it a purely personal count?

308nato · Post by **308nato** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:16 pm

If that is an arsenal I know some who own the armory.

phddan · Post by **phddan** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 am

Well actually it is the proper way to refer to the collection of arms and ammo.

1. a place of storage or a magazine containing arms and military equipment for land or naval service.
2. a government establishment where military equipment or munitions are manufactured.
3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.
4. a collection or supply of anything; store: He came to the meeting with an impressive arsenal of new research data.
[Origin: 1500â€“10; (< MF) < It arzanale < Upper Italian (Venetian) arzanÃ dockyard < Ar dār ṣināʿah workshop (lit., house of handwork); initial d prob. taken as a form of the prep. di from]

Dan

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:12 am

THIS BRINGS A QUESTION TO MY MIND......

I am assuming that this guy had his guns in a closet or something like that. Of course all my guns are in a large gun safe except for the ones that are in use for carry and home defense.

My question is how can they confiscate all of someone's guns when only one was used in a crime?

Say that I went off my rocker and started shooting up the neighborhood with a single handgun and for whatever reason they come to my house and arrest me, are they going to take the safe? Break into it? What?

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:32 am

AEA wrote:My question is how can they confiscate all of someone's guns when only one was used in a crime?

I don't know of a provision in Texas law for confiscating weapons owned by a person who has been arrested. I think it's just one of those things the police do.

It is illegal under federal law for a person who has been indicted on a felony charge to possess firearms.

- Jim

mcub · Post by **mcub** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:33 am

AEA

Say that I went off my rocker and started shooting up the neighborhood with a single handgun

When you do "that", there will be very few people that are going to feel sorry for you and think you are of a sound mind.

They don't need to break into your safe. There are quite a few professionals than can open them.

Also, any judge is going to believe that you planed to use all the guns, Do you really expect to stand in front of a judge and say, I was only going to shoot at the cops until that gun ran out ammo and I had no plans to pick up another???

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:48 am

OK, fair enough.....maybe I was a bit far out there......

Forget the shooting up the neighborhood thingy......

But just anything that you are arrested for at you home. The Police Reports that make it to the News almost always contain "a number of guns and money" or "Drugs and money" or just"guns" were found in the residence.

Then they take them. I don't see how this is legal if no crime has been committed by the use of them.

This is what I meant to say in the first place.

Now, it's fine that you will most probably get them back later on (depending on the level of the crime) but in what condition? And why were they taken in the first place?

I can see that if someone is arrested and their guns are not secured properly in a safe that it is in the public interest to remove the unsafely stored guns along with the individual. But I'm talking guns in a safe. I'm talking EXPENSIVE GUNS in a safe, not Saturday Night Specials that are worth 100.00 each and makes no difference if they are thrown around in the Police Property Room.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:07 am

Life just ain't fair sometimes. Once you have been arrested, many people will consider you guilty. Few politicians have lost an election for being "tough on crime."

BTW, if you possess more than $10,000 in cash, it will be presumed to be illegal drug profits and seized.

- Jim

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:25 am

Well, I really do not intend to commit any crime, but I do not like the idea of the Police being allowed to take my guns at their will.

Let's look at it another way. Let's say that I am forced to use Deadly Force on an intruder and then I call the Police and they come and take the Pistol I used. I have no problem with that. But if they are allowed to take all of my guns, I have a BIG Problem with that. Wouldn't you agree? Would you want all of your guns confiscated when you have done nothing illegal?

Guilty until proven innocent? Sounds like the gestapo to me!

I guess it's time to get rid of the safe and put all the guns in a safe deposit box at a bank somewhere in order to protect them from illegal confiscation?

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:50 am

AEA wrote:Let's look at it another way. Let's say that I am forced to use Deadly Force on an intruder and then I call the Police and they come and take the Pistol I used. I have no problem with that. But if they are allowed to take all of my guns, I have a BIG Problem with that. Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutely. If you have to defend yourself, you have the risk of the criminal's relatives or fellow gangsters coming after you.

Let's just say I have prepared for that possibility. A house is a big place with lots of nooks and crannies. I will suggest the heating ducts, since that's not where mine are.

BTW, I am not defending the practice of confiscating weapons without a specific legal authority. It's just the way it is.

- Jim

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:59 am

Well.....if that's "Just the way it is", then we need to get some legislation to change this!

Most CHL'ers have more than one gun. Some have 10+ (such as myself).

If this is "the way it is" then all of us are open to complete seizure of all of our guns in the event of the necessity to use Deadly Force at our residence.

Which brings up another question.........
If one of us uses Deadly Force at a location other than our residence, do the Police then go to our residence to search for other guns?

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:14 am

AEA wrote:Well.....if that's "Just the way it is", then we need to get some legislation to change this!

I agree. I think search and seizure powers are too expansive. Unfortunately, it's an uphill battle because of the "war on crime" and "war on drugs" mentality.

I hope Charles Cotton or someone else who is involved in the TSRA will comment on this issue.

AEA wrote:Which brings up another question.........
If one of us uses Deadly Force at a location other than our residence, do the Police then go to our residence to search for other guns?

It is possible. If you are involved in a shooting and arrested, the police could get a search warrant for your home. I know it happens in other states. I don't know if it's regularly done in Texas.

- Jim