Transferring gun via last will and testament

L8RG8R · Post by **L8RG8R** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:38 am

This maybe a silly question, but I thought I'd ask anyway...

My wife and I were putting together our will. For the most part, we are going to have everything liquidated and left to our daughters. There are a few personal item that we are going to leave to family however. I would like all of my firearms to go to my dad who lives in Tennessee. Surely this wouldn't need to go through a license dealer right? How would this work?

Ryan

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:55 am

My suggestion is to leave the guns out of the Will entirely. Make a verbal agreement with your executor and that he/she knows where the guns are and how to get them and personally give them to your Father (outside of all other property described in the Will).

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:11 am

I do not agree with AEA, solely because of the possible penalties for the tax fraud (I don't support the tax, but have to caution you on the penalties for the family).

The total estate value is how they base the death tax, so the IRS could consider this as a serious fraud and get a lot more of the estate than you intended.

I think, but I am not sure, that the actual transfer would have to go through an FFL since the state of residency is different. Since it is an estate, this may not be true.

Dougmyers5 · Post by **Dougmyers5** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:40 pm

Transfer ownership of all guns to your Dad that you want him to have now before you pass away so its all legal with papers and tell him to take possession after you pass away. That way he can prove they are his before you die and he is picking them up.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:53 pm

Dougmyers5 wrote:Transfer ownership of all guns to your Dad that you want him to have now before you pass away so its all legal with papers ...

How would someone transfer ownership of firearms to someone in another state without actually sending the weapons through an FFL?

Estate tax kicks in somewhere in the millions of dollars these days, though the threshhold will drop back to $1 million in 2010 unless a new law is passed. Very few people have to worry about.

My advice is to ask the lawyer who is drawing up your will.

- Jim

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:58 pm

You would transfer them by physically transporting them to the other State and personally handing them over to the receiver. Same as buying at a gun show, individual to individual. No paperwork of any kind involved.

As long as neither State has Registration Requirements, there is no problem doing this.

As far as the Tax Liability goes,.....let's get REAL here........

How many of you accurately reported your CORRECT income?

shipwreck · Post by **shipwreck** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:01 pm

When U cross state lines, don't U have to go thru an FFL in the receiving state?

AEA · Post by **AEA** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:02 pm

shipwreck wrote:When U cross state lines, don't U have to go thru an FFL in the receiving state?

NOPE. Not unless Registration is required in that State.

You only have to use an FFL for transfer by SHIPPING to another State. The purpose being that the FFL would then confirm the receiver is Legally allowed to own the particular firearm by way of a Fed Check (as appropriate).

There is no Law that prevents you (as a individual) from handing over a non-restricted gun to anyone that you reasonably believe to be Legally allowed to possess it.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:20 pm

I'm sorry, but it is a violation of federal law to transfer a firearm to a resident of another state: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2

Can you drive to another state and hand them a firearm, and get away with it? Sure. You are very likely to get away with it. But it's not legal.

- Jim

DMG · Post by **DMG** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:47 pm

SeamusTX:

That statute is not applicable; it is refering to ta purchase / sale, not to leaving a person propety under a will.

There is nothing in Texas law or Federal law (that I am familiar with) that would prohibit one from leaving firearms to someone in a will. What paperwork or other requirements that the receiving person would have to go though would depend upon the laws of the state of that person's residence (whether it would have to be registered, etc.)

DMG

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:06 pm

DMG wrote:There is nothing in Texas law or Federal law (that I am familiar with) that would prohibit one from leaving firearms to someone in a will.

I agree, but the suggestion was made upstream of physically giving the firearms to someone in another state now, not when a will is executed.

- Jim

stroo · Post by **stroo** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:15 pm

Ask your lawyer!!

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:18 pm

DMG wrote:SeamusTX:

That statute is not applicable; it is refering to ta purchase / sale, not to leaving a person propety under a will.

It refers to a transfer, no matter whether it's sold or given for free. The reply was given in response to the suggestion that it was okay to just drive there and hand them the guns in person.

Interstate transfers don't have to use an FFL if, and only if, the guns are bequeathed in a will. Otherwise it is illegal for a non-FFL to transfer any gun to a non-FFL who resides in another state. It doesn't matter if either state has registration, it's illegal with or without registration.

This is seldom prosecuted. People sell and give long guns all the time across state lines. When they do so, they're breaking GCA'68.

cbr600 · Post by **cbr600** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:55 pm

KBCraig wrote:This is seldom prosecuted. People sell and give long guns all the time across state lines. When they do so, they're breaking GCA'68.

Which, ironically enough, is one of those rare Federal laws that actually regulate interstate commerce.

ELB · Post by **ELB** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:03 pm

I'm not a lawyer, but hey, that hasn't stopped anyone else!

1. The FAQ cited by SeamusTX seems to me to indicate that you need an FFL to transfer a firearm to someone else in another state. I didn't chase down the references; there may be exceptions for inheritance and so forth. That's why we have lawyers and estate planners (HINT). Sad that one cannot read the laws of one's own country and figure out what to do, but there you go. Also, I believe someone else commented about the value of the estate needing to be pretty high before the estate tax kicks in, so I doubt the estate tax would be an issue with the guns, BUT there have been some families caught unawares when it came time to pass the family business along, and all the business assets add up to a substantial sum.

2. Realistically, I doubt most guns transferred across state lines via inheritance go through an FFL. Not encouraging anyone to break the law, but unless you are a famous person,or have a gargantuan collection that everyone knows about, I doubt the gummint would notice. Again, not reason to break the law, just sayin' I believe that's how things work out.

3. In any case, I think it is a VERY BAD IDEA to leave only verbal instructions about what to do with ANY of your stuff, but especially guns, money, and heirlooms. After all the purpose of the Will, the reason it is called a Will, is to let everyone know what you want done. Verbal instructions, especially just to one person, executor or not, is extremely weak (and for all I know, anything not in the will may be subject to state laws on inheritance). People do funny things, and often unexpected things, when someone dies and leaves some valuables behind.

For example, one of your daughters may succumb to anti-gun hysteria and see it as her moral mission to destroy the guns, and demand they be passed to the daughters. Verbal instructions to your Executor ain't gonna cut it -- I would bet state law would divide property not covered by the Will equally among your kids (assuming your wife is deceased also). Your dad might get a share if he is still alive.

Anyway, sadly, I think your question is for a professional. Good luck.

elb