Article: CHL Holder has Accidental Discharge @ Synangogue

ejector · Post by **ejector** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:12 am

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 374ee.html

Temple Emanu-El of Dallas is sending members an unusual pre-Yom Kippur message:

Please don't pack heat in the synagogue.

And by the way, the fellow who dropped his gun last week is very, very sorry.

The special letter, mailed Tuesday in advance of this weekend's High Holiday services, was a reaction to an incident that briefly made last week's Rosh Hashanah service the most famous in the nation. But not in a good way.

A 50-year member of the congregation stood for a prayer Wednesday night, and his legally concealed handgun slipped to the floor and went off. Three people were slightly injured, but the service was not interrupted.

The man with the gun, Marvin Marks, is a retired police officer. He is not to be confused with Marvin Marks, the retired furniture store owner who was sitting one row back and a few seats over and had nothing to do with the mishap.

In the letter, the armed Mr. Marks explained what happened. He said he had started to carry a concealed gun years earlier after being threatened by someone he had previously arrested. Normally, he leaves the gun in his car when he goes places where guns aren't welcome.

"On Wednesday evening, I forgot to leave it in my car. I know this is a poor excuse for bringing it into temple with me, but that is the truth," he wrote.

The gun fell out, he wrote, and although the safety was on, it fired.

Mr. Marks, who is 81, also had a word of apology for his fellow Mr. Marks, who is 86 and had to explain a few times that he didn't drop the gun.

"I hope that this letter will help to clear any confusion," wrote the armed Mr. Marks.

The apology was the younger Mr. Marks' idea, the letter from the temple said, offered in the "High Holiday spirit of repentance and return."

As for the synagogue, it's putting up new signs that make it clear that concealed handguns are not welcome. The old signs excluding guns did not specifically mention legally concealed weapons, temple spokesman Dana Moffatt said.

The synagogue staff has reviewed its security and emergency procedures and decided that â€“ except for the need to change the sign at the front door â€“ everything was handled pretty well.

And while the story raised a smirk or two outside the congregation, Mr. Moffatt said, "nobody inside the temple took it as any kind of a joking matter."

Mithras61 · Post by **Mithras61** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:22 am

Well, if I were a practitioner of that particular faith, I would have to find a new temple where my handgun was as welcome at the place of worship as my money is in the collection plate...

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:51 am

1) I want to know what make/model of gun went off when dropped.

2) I hope that no BG's or terrorists take advantage of the new helpless victim zone.

3) I would have liked to have read that the synagogue took full responsibility for its members' safety in the aftermath, including employing armed guards and people to patrol the parking lot.

4) "Forgot" to leave it in the car? Oh please.

Sometimes, you just expect people to have more common sense.

Post by **Keith B** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:06 am

frankie_the_yankee wrote: 4) "Forgot" to leave it in the car? Oh please.

Sometimes, you just expect people to have more common sense.

Well, the article DID say he was 81. I am only 47 and have memory lapses.

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:13 am

FWIW, my "forgot in the car" and "common sense" statements were intended to refer to different people. Specifically, the common sense part refers to the people in charge of the facility.

Post by **Keith B** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:43 am

Sorry, meant to cut the bottom line off of the quote, but understand it was for the facility.

It's just as I get older, I tend to forget more and more. Heaven help me if I make it to 81!! LOL

Regards,

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:28 pm

frankie_the_yankee wrote:1) I want to know what make/model of gun went off when dropped.

Me too. If true it's not the handgun that I'd want to carry.

jrosto · Post by **jrosto** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:45 pm

Paladin wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:1) I want to know what make/model of gun went off when dropped.
Me too. If true it's not the handgun that I'd want to carry.

After the initial DMN article came out, I wrote the reporter asking about make/model of the firearm that was involved in this incident. I have yet to get a response.

barres · Post by **barres** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:47 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, even if the synagogue had the proper signage (30.06) posted, Mr. Marks would not have been barred because, as a retired police officer, wouldn't he have been carrying under the federal "police officer carry" law (I forget the number of the bill that was passed)? And why would Mr. Marks have needed to leave his CCW in his car, since the place of worship was, apparently, not properly posted?

I agree that, if this had been my place of worship, it wouldn't be any longer once they posted.

ScubaSigGuy · Post by **ScubaSigGuy** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:49 pm

frankie_the_yankee wrote:1) I want to know what make/model of gun went off when dropped.

2) I hope that no BG's or terrorists take advantage of the new helpless victim zone.

3) I would have liked to have read that the synagogue took full responsibility for its members' safety in the aftermath, including employing armed guards and people to patrol the parking lot.

Synagogues and mosques are generally considered a possible target all of the time.

They do have armed guards that patrol the parking lot as well as guards at the front gate.

I am not of the Jewish faith but I have been there before and they are pretty vigilant about security.

All of that aside this situation REALLY bothers me. One guys mistake causes the loss of a privilege for many. This is why we have to be so careful.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:17 pm

Quote: "After the initial DMN article came out, I wrote the reporter asking about make/model of the firearm that was involved in this incident. I have yet to get a response."

Don't hold ya breath.

A little bird believes it was a very old Beretta .380.

But ... the bullet entered the top of the daughter's foot and exited the bottom. Fragments clipped a couple of other people. Little bird thinks skinny old guy probably fumbled a bit trying to catch it on the way down ... And instinctively reengaged the safety after the boo boo.

frankie_the_yankee · Post by **frankie_the_yankee** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:02 pm

Greybeard wrote: A little bird believes it was a very old Beretta .380.

But ... the bullet entered the top of the daughter's foot and exited the bottom. Fragments clipped a couple of other people. Little bird thinks skinny old guy probably fumbled a bit trying to catch it on the way down ... And instinctively reengaged the safety after the boo boo.

No matter what kind of gun it was I have a really hard time with the idea that the safety really was on when the ND happened.

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:43 pm

Come on, Frankie. Don't ya know it's far easier to blame the object (especially a gun!) than the operator?

rb4browns · Post by **rb4browns** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:50 pm

I'm an orthodox jew and you bet I will be packing in synagogue. I will not be so irresponsible as to have a ND though. During the high holiday season which we're in right now, and on he Sabbath when my wife and I walk a mile to the Synagogue we belong to our prime times for anti-semitic attacks. God help the neo-nazi who threatens my family.....

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:02 pm

I never understood what incited such hatred in people about Jews.

I went to my cousin's Bar Mitzvah in Marin County, California (think liberal like SF, only very well-to-do) at a very liberal temple. (pro Palestinian, etc)

The place had a bomb threat the next day, and someone was arrested trying to burn the place down a week after that.