FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

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philip964
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#16

Post by philip964 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:24 pm

spectre wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:59 pm
Did the cops ticket the car that was illegally parked, which set off this whole chain of events?
Did the police ticket the widow afterwards?

Some one said it was the new Trayvon Martin story.

Doesn’t seem to have the legs, maybe due to the age of the. “victim/aggressor”.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#17

Post by LTUME1978 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:35 pm

jonmo1 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm
No, he was not standing his ground. It was more like revenge for getting pushed down. The guy was backing away after the gun came out. If he had made an aggressive move forward then it would be justified.
I’d say 2nd or 3rd degree murder, certainly not first degree.
I beg to differ on standing his ground. I watched the video and that is eye opening. Having a discussion on illegally parking in a handicapped space does not justify the force that was applied. That was no gentle shove. I am 62 and if someone I did not know walked up and shoved me to the ground that aggressively, my pistol would be out. If that gentleman was not moving quickly to get well away from me, I would probably have shot as well (remember the 21 foot rule?) as he could close very quickly from such a short distance and inflict even more harm/injury/possibly death. When one is a senior citizen, an extremely hard jolt like that and/or the resulting impact to the pavement can cause serious injury and possibly be life threatening if ones head hits the pavement hard. You may be bullet proof when you are young but wait till you get older. You will find things change.

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#18

Post by spectre » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:48 pm

philip964 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:24 pm
Some one said it was the new Trayvon Martin story.

Doesn’t seem to have the legs, maybe due to the age of the. “victim/aggressor”.
In addition to their ages, I think the video is a big factor. We see who turned a conversation into physical combat.

We can't hear what was said but we can see one man standing more than arms length from a car, presumably talking to somebody inside. We see his body language and he doesn't look like he's ranting and raving. He's not leaning in the window. He's standing there, presumably talking with the driver, when the other man rushes over and knocks him to the ground.

It's hard to justify shooting somebody for knocking you down, but it looks like he only shot once, and didn't shoot as his attacker was running back into the store, so I'm keeping an open mind.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#19

Post by philip964 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:06 pm

Crotchety old seniors may be a little safer in Florida today.


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#20

Post by rssecurity » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:40 pm

Note to self: not your job to police handicapped parking spaces.
Well, in Houston at least, you can volunteer: http://www.houstontx.gov/parking/volunteer.html

As for whether or not the shooting was justified, I think they both screwed up, but watching the video several times, Markeis (the shootee) advanced on Drejka (shooter) after pushing him to the ground. He only backed off when he saw the gun. I think it's reasonable to assume the aggression wouldn't have ended with just an [uncalled for and very hard] shove if Drejka didn't have a gun. I think Drejka was justified in pulling the gun. Firing it, that's a bit harder to judge, but I'm leaning towards no.

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#21

Post by Oldgringo » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:45 pm

This story of an issue in Florida that came out of a NY publication is automatically suspect!


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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#22

Post by flechero » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:48 am

The other factor is that it seemed the senior didn't see the guy approaching and was completely blindsided. That alone would make the attack seem random and more violent, which could have been the difference between shoot first or re-assess before firing.

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#23

Post by Paladin » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:34 am

There is an excellent argument for Drejka not going around policing handicapped parking in his spare time. Unless he works for the establishment or the city he is not parking space patrol.

However:
[Jacobs]The certified nursing assistant told the newspaper she parked in the handicap spot because the parking lot was packed. Surveillance video, however, showed several open parking spaces in front of the store prior to the deadly shooting.
Jacob's is a lazy liar and her baby-daddy was a thug.

If bullies continuously break the law just because they feel like it and lie and beat down anyone who dares to say anything about it... well, eventually that is going to go wrong.

That Jacob's states "Markeis is a good man … He was just protecting us" and continues to blame the victim just goes to show that she fully supported the assault&battery on Drejka and has learned nothing. There is no reasoning with Jacobs. Wish they could take away her children... she's just going to raise more miscreants.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#24

Post by mojo84 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:56 am

It's hard to make a definitive judgement based solely on this video. However, this is a good example of why I do not believe one should feel the need to shoot just because one has pulled his/her weapon. Many seem to think if you pull your weapon you better shoot or not pull it at all. This was a good example of a threat of the use of the weapon being sufficient to stop the attack. It appears the guy had already decided if he pulled his weapon he was going to shoot.

It appears to me the guy policing the handicap parking should mind his own business or just said something and then moved on without getting into an argument. The woman's boyfriend should have approached the guy and told him to back off without shoving him like he did. Once he shoved the guy to the ground, I can fully support the guy pulling his gun but it does not appear the guy that shoved him is committed to continuing the once he saw the gun as his body language and position changed significantly to a less aggressive attitude.

Just my thoughts. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#25

Post by chamberc » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:20 am

It's very difficult to judge here. Obviously the thug was the one who took this to the physical level. Time in these incidents to the parties involved is not the same as watching the video after the fact, once you know the backstory.

The criminal was very close to the victim as he laid on the ground, and wasn't backing away until the victim pulled the gun, but in real-time, did the victim feel threatened given the close distance?

Not a great situation, but one more reason why you never escalate a situation into a physical altercations when words can continue...
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#26

Post by flechero » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:21 am

It's hard to make a definitive judgement based solely on this video. However, this is a good example of why I do not believe one should feel the need to shoot just because one has pulled his/her weapon. Many seem to think if you pull your weapon you better shoot or not pull it at all.
:iagree:

I agree that it's best not to pre-determine a shoot if you draw. I didn't have audio but the aggressor could well have additionally said something to the effect of I'll kill you or beat you, etc. Details matter, and we never seem to have them all when discussion these scenarios. :tiphat:

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#27

Post by Maxwell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:44 am

LTUME1978 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:35 pm
jonmo1 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm
No, he was not standing his ground. It was more like revenge for getting pushed down. The guy was backing away after the gun came out. If he had made an aggressive move forward then it would be justified.
I’d say 2nd or 3rd degree murder, certainly not first degree.
I beg to differ on standing his ground. I watched the video and that is eye opening. Having a discussion on illegally parking in a handicapped space does not justify the force that was applied. That was no gentle shove. I am 62 and if someone I did not know walked up and shoved me to the ground that aggressively, my pistol would be out. If that gentleman was not moving quickly to get well away from me, I would probably have shot as well (remember the 21 foot rule?) as he could close very quickly from such a short distance and inflict even more harm/injury/possibly death. When one is a senior citizen, an extremely hard jolt like that and/or the resulting impact to the pavement can cause serious injury and possibly be life threatening if ones head hits the pavement hard. You may be bullet proof when you are young but wait till you get older. You will find things change.
If it was a discussion, I'd agree. I'm almost 60 and much more fragile than when younger also. A shove like that could do serious damage. However witnesses has already stated this was not "a discussion," the shooter was YELLING at her in front of two small children and has a history of doing so using very racial and inflammatory language. And yes, husband/BF was backing away from the confrontation after the shove when he was shot. I think, IMO, the sheriff knows this and most likely believes it was a provoked situation also. But by the letter of their state law it may have been legal.

LTUME, I doubt you or I would have been yelling at people for parking in a handicap space, much less so doing it repeatedly.

If this happened in Texas I would hope there'd be a grand jury inquiry to determine charges.
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#28

Post by Maxwell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:55 am

Differences in the responses on different forums are interesting. On one national forum (full of great people IMO) the opinion is heavily weighted towards the stand-your-ground laws and this being a good shoot. On this forum it is weighted much more towards the opinion that the shooter provoked the situation.

Just an observation. YMMV

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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#29

Post by Maxwell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:56 am

flechero wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:21 am
It's hard to make a definitive judgement based solely on this video. However, this is a good example of why I do not believe one should feel the need to shoot just because one has pulled his/her weapon. Many seem to think if you pull your weapon you better shoot or not pull it at all.
:iagree:

I agree that it's best not to pre-determine a shoot if you draw. I didn't have audio but the aggressor could well have additionally said something to the effect of I'll kill you or beat you, etc. Details matter, and we never seem to have them all when discussion these scenarios. :tiphat:
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
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Re: FL:Stand your ground law under fire for parking space dispute murder

#30

Post by flechero » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am

Maxwell wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:55 am
Differences in the responses on different forums are interesting. On one national forum (full of great people IMO) the opinion is heavily weighted towards the stand-your-ground laws and this being a good shoot. On this forum it is weighted much more towards the opinion that the shooter provoked the situation.

Just an observation. YMMV

:tiphat:
Big difference between a "good shoot" and a "legal shoot" I think our crowd leans more towards only calling a "good shoot," good when discussing these vs. just going with the legal aspect.

Either way, attacking a senior citizen for talking to your girlfriend is criminal... and I feel sorry for the kid - who now only has 1 crappy parent.

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