HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

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Papa_Tiger
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HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#1

Post by Papa_Tiger » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 pm

https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... Bill=HB357

Text:
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... 00357I.htm

I haven't fully absorbed all of this bill because it modifies SO many sections of Texas Law, but it looks like it removes the licensing from the requirement to carry a handgun, makes 30.06/7 apply to all persons carrying a handgun and adds 30.07 to the wrongful exclusion process...

More to read and digest. I look forward to hearing Charles' take on this.

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#2

Post by PriestTheRunner » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm

That is quite the bill.... Sheesh there is a lot of distributed code.

Looks like it makes constitutional carry apply to all, and makes 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to 'unlicensed persons'.

It would likely only make it through with additional provisions for what a license holder can and cannot do- but considering when have been vetted by the state, we should be able to carry basically anywhere...

Doesn't address: GFSZ act, courtrooms or 30.06/30.07 for license holder as best as I can tell. Which makes sense, I would rather see this go through than nothing and GFSZ act is going to carry some baggage and expend some political capital.

Not saying we shouldn't get rid of GFSZ but this is a step in the right direction. Only one way to eat an elephant... :tiphat:

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#3

Post by ELB » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:05 pm

PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm
That is quite the bill.... Sheesh there is a lot of distributed code.

Looks like it makes constitutional carry apply to all, and makes 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to 'unlicensed persons'.

It would likely only make it through with additional provisions for what a license holder can and cannot do- but considering when have been vetted by the state, we should be able to carry basically anywhere...

Doesn't address: GFSZ act, courtrooms or 30.06/30.07 for license holder as best as I can tell. Which makes sense, I would rather see this go through than nothing and GFSZ act is going to carry some baggage and expend some political capital.

Not saying we shouldn't get rid of GFSZ but this is a step in the right direction. Only one way to eat an elephant... :tiphat:
The Gun Free School Zone Act is a Federal Law. Tex Leg is not going to be able to do anything about that.


BTW, this seems to be a good overview of current laws affecting carry of firearms and Texas schools:
https://www.tasb.org/Services/Legal-Ser ... operty.pdf
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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#4

Post by PriestTheRunner » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm

ELB wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:05 pm
PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm
...
The Gun Free School Zone Act is a Federal Law. Tex Leg is not going to be able to do anything about that.

BTW, this seems to be a good overview of current laws affecting carry of firearms and Texas schools:
https://www.tasb.org/Services/Legal-Ser ... operty.pdf
GFSZ Act is a federal carrot on a stick. It is only enforceable because states have implemented it into state law, hence US v Lopez. However, the revised version of GFSZ act has never been tested before SCOTUS so it would be interesting to see what would happen.

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#5

Post by AJSully421 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:24 pm

PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm
That is quite the bill.... Sheesh there is a lot of distributed code.

Looks like it makes constitutional carry apply to all, and makes 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to 'unlicensed persons'.

It would likely only make it through with additional provisions for what a license holder can and cannot do- but considering when have been vetted by the state, we should be able to carry basically anywhere...

Doesn't address: GFSZ act, courtrooms or 30.06/30.07 for license holder as best as I can tell. Which makes sense, I would rather see this go through than nothing and GFSZ act is going to carry some baggage and expend some political capital.

Not saying we shouldn't get rid of GFSZ but this is a step in the right direction. Only one way to eat an elephant... :tiphat:
It makes 30.06 & 30.07 apply to all persons, including Security Officers and Body Guards, which are not currently subject to those sections. Pretty sizable oversight.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#6

Post by ELB » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:38 pm

PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm
...
... It is only enforceable because states have implemented it into state law,...
Um, what?

The current GFSZA is certainly enforceable by the feds regardless of state law (although they it seems to come into play mostly or only as an add-on to other offenses. generally drug offenses). If the GFSZA went away tomorrow the state laws would still apply, and if the Texas state laws concerning schools and guns went away tomorrow the GFSZA would still be in force.

In any case, the State Leg cannot change the federal GFSZA.
USAF 1982-2005
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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#7

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:19 pm

PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm
ELB wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:05 pm
PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm
...
The Gun Free School Zone Act is a Federal Law. Tex Leg is not going to be able to do anything about that.

BTW, this seems to be a good overview of current laws affecting carry of firearms and Texas schools:
https://www.tasb.org/Services/Legal-Ser ... operty.pdf
GFSZ Act is a federal carrot on a stick. It is only enforceable because states have implemented it into state law, hence US v Lopez. However, the revised version of GFSZ act has never been tested before SCOTUS so it would be interesting to see what would happen.
Wrong! People have been convicted of this federal offense and it has been upheld in federal appellate courts. State law has nothing to do with it. The only reason the original GFSZ law was struck down was because it didn't contain the magic words required to invoke the Commerce Clause.

Chas.

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#8

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 pm
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... Bill=HB357

Text:
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... 00357I.htm

I haven't fully absorbed all of this bill because it modifies SO many sections of Texas Law, but it looks like it removes the licensing from the requirement to carry a handgun, makes 30.06/7 apply to all persons carrying a handgun and adds 30.07 to the wrongful exclusion process...

More to read and digest. I look forward to hearing Charles' take on this.
I too have to analyze it in detail, but even skimming it shows it will never pass. It includes too many deal-breaking provisions, opens too many code provisions up to anti-gun amendments and modifies TPC §§30.07 & 30.07 to apply to both licensed and unlicensed carry. The latter alone is enough to kill the bill.

Chas.

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SewTexas
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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#9

Post by SewTexas » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:39 pm
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 pm
https://capitol.texas.gov/BillLookup/Hi ... Bill=HB357

Text:
https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/b ... 00357I.htm

I haven't fully absorbed all of this bill because it modifies SO many sections of Texas Law, but it looks like it removes the licensing from the requirement to carry a handgun, makes 30.06/7 apply to all persons carrying a handgun and adds 30.07 to the wrongful exclusion process...

More to read and digest. I look forward to hearing Charles' take on this.
I too have to analyze it in detail, but even skimming it shows it will never pass. It includes too many deal-breaking provisions, opens too many code provisions up to anti-gun amendments and modifies TPC §§30.07 & 30.07 to apply to both licensed and unlicensed carry. The latter alone is enough to kill the bill.

Chas.
Let's be honest, it would help if Stickland would learn how to "play well with others" just a little. He could have the best bill ever and it still wouldn't pass. I'm not saying he needs to bend over backward, I'm not saying he needs to compromise his standards, I'm saying like everything else, if we want something to work we have to work with others, even it our own party, and he has a way of turning off his own party.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir


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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#10

Post by hitwsr » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:42 am

Need help "absorbing" and digesting this.
Seems to be alot of mods to current laws.
Is it actually likely to stick this time?
Help me out here, but if HB357 passes, then essentially Constitutional Carry is a go?
Of course, carry in the outlined restricted areas is a no no, but this would....
- Eliminate LTC requirement?
- Fizzle out the LTC Program?
- That's quite a bit of potential lost State Revenue, and income for Instructors
- Invoke an education program similar to Hunters Ed?
- Allow same carry in other States other than Home State?
Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions? On what you think is going to happen?

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#11

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:06 am

AJSully421 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:24 pm
PriestTheRunner wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm
That is quite the bill.... Sheesh there is a lot of distributed code.

Looks like it makes constitutional carry apply to all, and makes 30.06 and 30.07 only apply to 'unlicensed persons'.

It would likely only make it through with additional provisions for what a license holder can and cannot do- but considering when have been vetted by the state, we should be able to carry basically anywhere...

Doesn't address: GFSZ act, courtrooms or 30.06/30.07 for license holder as best as I can tell. Which makes sense, I would rather see this go through than nothing and GFSZ act is going to carry some baggage and expend some political capital.

Not saying we shouldn't get rid of GFSZ but this is a step in the right direction. Only one way to eat an elephant... :tiphat:
It makes 30.06 & 30.07 apply to all persons, including Security Officers and Body Guards, which are not currently subject to those sections. Pretty sizable oversight.
What about LEO and Special Investigators (Feds) who are not currently subject to those sections...
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#12

Post by Maxwell » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:55 pm

So just a wild, off the wall question:
If Texas implements constitutional carry (or some similar "no license required scenario") what happens to our reciprocity agreements with other states?

Yin and yang folks. I like being able to carry in the several states I frequently travel to.
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#13

Post by Lynyrd » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:30 pm

Maxwell wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:55 pm
So just a wild, off the wall question:
If Texas implements constitutional carry (or some similar "no license required scenario") what happens to our reciprocity agreements with other states?

Yin and yang folks. I like being able to carry in the several states I frequently travel to.
As long as Texas does not abandon LTC (which isn't being proposed), reciprocity would stay the same for those that have their LTC.
Do what you say you're gonna do.


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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#14

Post by hitwsr » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:59 am

So, if Constitutional Carry is approved, then what would be the advantage to having an LTC?

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Re: HB 357 - Unlicensed Carry (Stickland)

#15

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:08 am

hitwsr wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:59 am
So, if Constitutional Carry is approved, then what would be the advantage to having an LTC?
No NICS check for buying guns, reciprocity with other states, Federal GFSZA exemption.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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