Are batons legal to carry in the car?

age_ranger · Post by **age_ranger** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:28 pm

I was just given an ASP baton as a gift. I've never thought of using a baton but as an alternative to carrying, I was thinking of keeping it in my work truck. I can't carry while in my work truck (could but some customers are posted 30.06) and could use another means of defense other than OC. I'm not current or prior LE. Thanks in advance.

Post by **carlson1** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:38 pm

Sorry brother, but you can't. Stick to the Beretta!!!!

age_ranger · Post by **age_ranger** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:53 am

Baah...........figures. Probably falls under "club" huh? I have to go work at a DoD contractors facility and they don't let guns withink 1000 miles or something stoopid like that. Looks like I'm going packin' my wits with me. Should be a dangerous trip

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:02 am

I think the revised statute makes it legal to carry a club in a vehicle:

PC Â§46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

However, what I think is irrelevant. You might want to check with a friendly policeman in the jurisdiction where you spend most of your time and see what they have been instructed.

- Jim

Wildscar · Post by **Wildscar** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:57 am

Just get a Bat and toss it in there with a ball and glove. Then its sporting equipment, Not a Club.

VViper · Post by **VViper** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:49 am

Good advice from Seamus TX and Wildscar.

Here's an excerpt from a publication on the DPS website,
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_s ... 82007a.pdf

"HB 1815 excludes from unlawful carrying of a weapon a person who is carrying a handgun,
illegal knife, or club on the personâ€™s own premises or premises under their control or inside of or
directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or is under their control. The bill
makes it an offense to carry a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under
the personâ€™s control if the handgun is in plain view or the person is engaged in certain criminal
activity, is prohibited from possessing a firearm, or is a member of a criminal street gang."

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:19 pm

Unless yoyu have been trained in less-lethal use of a baton, striking a person with one is deadly force. WHy use a club if deadly force is authorized when you have a much better option that is also legal, a handgun?

G.C.Montgomery · Post by **G.C.Montgomery** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:29 pm

txinvestigator wrote:Unless yoyu have been trained in less-lethal use of a baton, striking a person with one is deadly force. WHy use a club if deadly force is authorized when you have a much better option that is also legal, a handgun?

I agree that it doesn't make sense to use a club when you can legally use a handgun. However, could you please expand on first point? Can anyone other than a licensed security or peace officer get less-lethal training for the ASP or other baton that is recognized by the state and a criminal court?

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:06 pm

G.C.Montgomery wrote:However, could you please expand on first point? Can anyone other than a licensed security or peace officer get less-lethal training for the ASP or other baton that is recognized by the state and a criminal court?

I don't think there is any standardized acceptable training that courts recognize. It is going to be up to you to be able to convince the jury that you knew what you were doing was not likely to cause serious bodily or death, or in the manner of your use was not capable of causing serious bodily injury or death.

I have had several types of training in the use of the baton, first was a straight baton technique in the academy, then a few years later PR24 training, then later Pressure Point Control Tactics (PPCT) training. All training taught lethal as well as less-lethal techniques. I can explain why a strike to a particular area is designed to NOT cause serious bodily injury and why it was an appropriate use of force, and I can provide documentation of that training.

Recently my Taekwondo school licensed PPCT training, and we trained in the traditional use of the Bahng Mahng EE (short straight stick) which includes strikes to areas of the body intended to completely incapacitate and break bones (serious bodily injury), and PPCT tactics that are designed to not cause such injuries.

I think for the average citizen a baton is not a good self-defense weapon. It requires you to be too close to use effectively, and can be difficult to get into use. Without training you risk an excessive force issue.

I carry an ASP when performing bodyguard details, as it is useful in keeping people back and getting thru crowds without striking with it. I have also found that OC has a more deterrent effect than a baton also.

srothstein · Post by **srothstein** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:13 pm

I do not agree with TXI that the baton is necessarily lethal force without training, but he does have a valid point that you need to be trained for liability purposes. Even most police departments get their officers "certified" for ASPs and OC spray, despite the fact that there is no state recognition of these certifications.

If I were you, I would carry it int the truck (this is legal with ot without training) and get some training for it. Look for any security guard school for their baton/nightstick/Asp training and attend there. Some community colleges that offer security or police training will allow anyone to attend these classes. That way, if you use it as you were trained, you are pretty clear on the liability issue (you went out of your way and exceeded the legal requirements to get training, so there is no negligence there) and the liability will fall back on who trained you. Without training, the liability will fall directly on you.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:03 pm

srothstein wrote:I do not agree with TXI that the baton is necessarily lethal force without training,

I said Deady Force, which is force that causes death or serious bodily injury, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

I my experience, an untrained person will swing a baton at a person's head or torso. Clearly deady force. I realize that a person could use it in a manner that would not be deadly force, but the reality is an untrained person will be reacting, and we both know what that means. ;)

Mike1951 · Post by **Mike1951** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:21 pm

It's been 25 years ago, but I took a 20 hour course on the baton.

It was all wrist flicks and come alongs.

Nary a swing in the class.

Course, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with these expanding things!

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm

Mike1951 wrote:Course, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with these expanding things!

Flick it open with your wrist/ arm movement, then apply as directed.

gregthehand · Post by **gregthehand** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:16 pm

I would just look at a taser instead of a baton. There are classes offered for regular joes, and they are much more effective than an ASP baton (in my opinion, and yes I have carried both). Besides after clubbing someone they are injured, after tasering them they are fine (most of the time). So while the chance for civil liability is still there, it's considerably less. This is the whole reason why so many cops are taking the ASP off their belt and putting on the taser. Lighter, more effective, less injury/liability factor.

flintknapper · Post by **flintknapper** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:10 pm

"Don't Taze me Bro!"