Open carry question (no this is not a petition...)

[atxgun]

When I did my shooting test at the Lone Star Gun range I noticed the range master was open carrying. Sure that's his place of employment but I thought the law said you said had to conceal there too. Of course this is a gun range but I didn't see anything in the books saying that made a difference for open vs. concealed. (And of course I don't really care, more power to him).

Question is what part of the law allows him to do this? Maybe he was the owner? (not sure if that was the case or not though)

Edit to clarify: Yeah i know we were ALL open carrying while on the range but most ranges I didn't think you were generally allowed to walk around the premise w/ you firearm holstered in open -- it's usually action open or in a case when not directly on the range.

[seamusTX]

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

A range officer is beyond doubt in control of the premises.

- Jim

[srothstein]

The part to understand is not why he can open carry, but why you cannot. As a general rule, anyone who is excepted from the section of the law (46.02 is non-applicable) may carry either open or concealed. Some people are specifically limited, such as a CHL must carry concealed while a security officer must carry open.

So, since there is no limit on someone who is carrying on premises under his control, he may carry openly or concealed.

[atxgun]

Ok well, if by that interpretation of the law: I'm at work in an office environment that does not have a no guns policy, I happen to be in a managerial position and have authority to fire people (control of the premises). Do I then have the legal right to open carry at work?

[strictly hypothetical of course]

[GrillKing]

But wouldn't PC 46.15 preclude open carry at the gun range except by the actual owner?

(Non - Applicability of PC46.02:
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);

[atxgun]

GrillKing, that's what I was wondering. But as I said I really don't know if he was the owner or not ... very well could have been.

[GrillKing]

I've been to ranges where several open carried. I guess they could all be owners of the business or perhaps it's just a law that's not enforced at ranges. After all, you do expect to see guns at a shooting range....

[txinvestigator]

But wouldn't PC 46.15 preclude open carry at the gun range except by the actual owner?

(Non - Applicability of PC46.02:
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);

How does that limit it to the owner? If the employee can control access it is under his control.

For example, could the instructor order someone to leave the premises, and call the police to report a trespasser if the person refused?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Isn't there an exemption somewhere in the law for when you are participating in a sporting activity such as hunting or target shooting? At IDPA matches in warm weather for instance, everyone open carries. And when you are running a course, you are open carrying at the very beginning when your gun is loaded and holstered and you are waiting for the signal to start.

I am 100% sure that this is fully legal. Maybe someone could cite the section of law that covers it.

[seamusTX]

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, ...

No definition of sporting activity is given in the law. So we go to the dictionary and find a very broad definition relating to recreation or play. IDPA is explicitly defined as a game, so carrying at an IDPA competition is legal and has been as long as the law has been in its present form.

- Jim

[GrillKing]

But wouldn't PC 46.15 preclude open carry at the gun range except by the actual owner?

(Non - Applicability of PC46.02:
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's controlunless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);

How does that limit it to the owner? If the employee can control access it is under his control.

For example, could the instructor order someone to leave the premises, and call the police to report a trespasser if the person refused?

If they are acting as security, in blue above, they are precluded from carry as I read it. Generally, I believe some may be acting as security.... but that is a probably hard to prove and may not be correct. I believe it likely is so in many cases.

[Lucky45]

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, ...

No definition of sporting activity is given in the law. So we go to the dictionary and find a very broad definition relating to recreation or play. IDPA is explicitly defined as a game, so carrying at an IDPA competition is legal and has been as long as the law has been in its present form.

- Jim

Hey Jim,
I think you forgot to finish the section which defines the law.

PC 46.15 NONAPPLICABILITY
(7) (b) *[as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., HB 2101.] Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

So anyone can open carry at any gun range and not be committing an offense. If the range owners or employees don't want shooters to open carry at the range which is not illegal, then I think they stand a chance of loosing customers.

[GrillKing]

So anyone can open carry at any gun range and not be committing an offense.

Except a person acting primarily as security, unless commissioned. I don't think keeping the shooters in line qualifies as sporting activity, although some may enjoy it and think so!!

[seamusTX]

If the range owners or employees don't want shooters to open carry at the range which is not illegal, then I think they stand a chance of loosing customers.

I see you live in Missouri City. Is there a range within driving distance of you where you are allowed by the owner or operator to carry a loaded weapon off the firing line? There is no such place in Galveston County.

If every business has the same rules, however objectionable, customers just have to deal with it.

- Jim

[Lucky45]

Except a person acting primarily as security, unless commissioned. I don't think keeping the shooters in line qualifies as sporting activity, although some may enjoy it and think so!!

I know, but I've to many gun ranges and don't remember ever seeing commissioned security. Have you and which one?