NEED YOUR HELP -- Christmas Gift Selection

shootthesheet · Post by **shootthesheet** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:29 pm

P3AT. I don't know about any "issues" as I think it is hype from competitors mainly. Yes, some have problems but, I am not one.

The P3AT is not a range gun that a person would run hundreds of rounds thru for practice. Fire it enough to keep familiar and insure reliability. Clean and inspect it each time. Mine is accurate out to 15 yards with no problem. It is perfect for a woman to use in a defensive situation where only a few shots will most likely be fired. I feel the .380 is weak but even a .32 or .22 is better than nothing. I think if you want to shoot get a range gun after. The KT is a fine gun for those who choose style over all else. I will put up with the poor trigger and the recoil and whatever else as long as it functions and I can hit accurately with it. Of course, I am a man so you can forget everything I said and let her get what she wants if you want to make her happy and willing to carry.

CompVest · Post by **CompVest** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:42 pm

It is perfect for a woman to use...

Huh?

I find my 1911 a "perfect" gun for this woman and several women I know to shoot defensively!

Dragonfighter · Post by **Dragonfighter** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:49 pm

My wife and I discussed the problems with her carry weapon (the S&W Chiefs Spl.). She likes the power and the way it shoots. Size was a secondary detriment with weight being the biggest problem.

I came across a S&W Model 340 SC that weighs in at a whopping 12 oz. If I can unload a piece or two I might be able to afford it. Anyone have any experience with one? Like it? Dislike it? Weight savings of 10 oz when compared to the Chief's Special.

Also looked at the Beretta Tomcat and Bobcat. Significantly smaller. Weight 14.5 oz. or 8 oz. weight savings. Any opinions on those?

OverEasy · Post by **OverEasy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:17 am

Dragonfighter,
After seeing your post to sell off your collection I came back here to post.
Before you spend the money for the S&W 340 SC, please think about the 12 oz. weight. It is going to kick like a mule especially with any self defence loads (Speer GoldDots, Rem Golden Saber, Cor-Bon). It won't shoot anything like the model 36. My wife has a model 36 airweight.

Please see if you can find anyone that has an SC you can shoot before you buy one. I'm just trying to help you avoid ending up with an expensive "paper weight".

Good Luck, OE

5111 · Post by **5111** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:28 am

Dragonfighter wrote: Also looked at the Beretta Tomcat and Bobcat. Significantly smaller. Weight 14.5 oz. or 8 oz. weight savings. Any opinions on those?

My wife has been wanting a Tomcat for a while as a carry gun. I have been putting her off because I would prefer that she have something bigger and because it is a lot of money for little gun. Finally, one day at the range I let her rent one because I figured that she would not like shooting it. BIG MISTAKE! Now she REALLY wants one :(

CompVest · Post by **CompVest** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:48 am

5111

Get her the gun she wants. She is far more likely to carry it and shoot it. I have ladies come to my class with guns others thought they should have and they rarely enjoy shooting them as much as the ladies that chose their guns. Just my 2 cents worth.

G-Ma · Post by **G-Ma** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:57 pm

OK, guys, here's the deal: I'm the only one who knows how an individual gun "feels" in my hand, both physically and emotionally. There is an emotional component to the "feel" of a gun. I am not testosterone driven and don't give a flip how big it is or how powerful it is. If it's pink, I like it better than if it's black ... it's a girl thang!

I would project that your wife might be the same.

The gun doesn't "care" what color it is, how big it is, or who is shooting it. Besides, a very wise man told me that a .22 bullet, hitting the right place on an assailant, bounces around inside and can be just as effective as a .45. So, let her decide what is best for her.

Then, after she starts to have fun hitting targets with it, she may come around to your way of thinking. But, with my personality, if I had been forced to use a "big" gun right away, I would have balked and refused to use ANY gun. Not smart. Not good. But reality. We ladies are like that, sometimes. Let her lead on this one, and both of you win. IMHO.

My 2 cents.

Dragonfighter · Post by **Dragonfighter** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:35 pm

I've got no real problems with a .22. I have personally seen a lot more dead by .22 than 9 mm. I have even carried a guy (albeit a big fellow) that toook a .45 through the right ventricle and lived, in fact he was conscious and talking to me all the way in. One time I had a fellow hit in the right glute and was deader than a mackerel. Either clipped a big pipe or bounced off the pelvis and piffed his innards.

I like the little Bobcat/Tomcats. I've been looking and haven't really found anything comparable. Thanks G-Ma for your insight, and thanks to hubby for his kind offer. 5111, your wife's reaction does a lot to sell the Bobcat

So I'll narrow it down to the:

Kel Tek P3AT (last in the running)
Kel Tek P32
Beretta Bob Cat (.32?)
Beretta Tomcat (.22 LR) May have them reversed.

So the next benchmark is reliability, how do these guys stack up?

Again, thanks so much for the help so far.

G-Ma · Post by **G-Ma** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:33 pm

Reliability wise, I'd NEVER again buy a P3AT! It kills the hands, because the recoil is so bad. Also, our P3AT seems to spend a lot of time in the shop. The slide hangs up and doesn't want to rack one time, then it does just fine in a couple of minutes ... no real reason that I can tell. Then, another time, it will jam and not fire. That's the most troubling, as it's a defensive weapon. I tried to clean it the other night, but the slide wouldn't come off. Then, a day or two later, it would come off. It's real temperamental. The others seem to be good choices. Ask the wife what she thinks. Women like for their men to ask their opinion. Makes us feel loved.

WildBill · Post by **WildBill** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:02 pm

Another gun to consider is the Springfield Armory XD-Subcompact [9mm]. A friend's wife bought one a couple months ago and likes the feel and accuracy. She hasn't carried yet and hasn't shot enough rounds to determine the reliability.

A friend also has the Sig P230 which is nice to shoot and very reliable. There are two design features that he doesn't like. No slide lock and the European style magazine release. It is on the heavy side and wouldn't work with a "bra clip" - a holster is definitely needed.

Good luck with your choice.

Dragonfighter · Post by **Dragonfighter** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:05 pm

Thanks again G-Ma. I have talked to her intermittently during this process and we have ruled out the 340. Where we are at, is this:

Size no bigger than the Model 36. Smaller is better.

Weight is a real issue for her. I'm not trying to make her out as a weakling, she carries a huge purse and with its loading, every ounce counts.

Recoil must be manageable, she has always had a weak wrist, but could handle the S&W. This last requal she had problems with my Glock...which she has never liked.

Where I am at:

I don't want her to have to cock for every shot, the NAA she used to have was a SA revolver.

The caliber I want, is the deadliest she will carry in the pistol of little weight and concealable size AND manageable recoil

So how does the KT P232 hold up, reliable? The "Cats"? And how does .32 stack up against .22 LR?

When I bought her that Model 36 (her first pistol) she was managing a clothing distribution center in a bad part of town. She was younger, stronger and carried a waist purse. She was deadly with the 36 and had no problems carrying a 2# pistol on her waist. Those dynamics have changed, she (and I) are older, she is a stay at home mom and has (as I have) weakened a bit. Her ability to punch through the wrist problem is limited.

The last time we went out with th S&W she was still dangerous but did not have, and could not muster the control she once had. She still loves the gun but will not carry it. And the recoil from my Glock actually injured her, I think. She ended up qualifying with one of the range supplied Glock 9s that was ported.

I am leaning toward a cat in a brushed finish, it has aesthetics, size and weight going for it though it is a couple of onces heavier than the KT's I just need to know if there is a decent .32 round out there or if the .22 LR is what is recommended. It looks like the cat can go in a pocket pretty well if she is not carrying her purse as well.

The KT seems a little thicker. But their weight is lighter.

Your patience has been great. Thank you for entertaining my vacillations and musings.