This afternoon, my 21 yoa daughter came by the house to visit. While she was here she mentioned that her downstairs neighbor called her and asked her if she had tried to come in around 5am this morning. (My daughter lives in a duplex in the second floor unit with an entry door on the first floor.) No, she hadn't. Well, the neighbor tells her that she heard someone trying to open the downstair door and this is the second time in the past couple of weeks. To make things worse, my daughter tells me that her outside lights do not work. Needless to say this caused me great concern for her safety.
I went my gun safe and offered her a 5 shot 38 caliber Charter Arms revolver and told her to take it for her protection. Now for the record, she has never shown an interest in guns and has never shot one. With that in mind, I felt that a revolver was probably the best option for her. I showed her how to load and unload it, had her dry fire it, and discussed gun safety as well as when she should use it. She accepted all of this and said "Dad, if you want me to take this I will, its up to you". At that point, I began having some second thoughts - she had never even held a gun until tonight (yes, I know - my fault), she had no training, if she got scared would she accidentally shoot her roommate in the darkness? What if some of her college friends found it and started having horse play with it? I finally decided that there were too many "what if's" and took the gun back.
Did I make a mistake?
We WILL be going to the range together as soon as our schedules allow.
I would appreciate some advice
Moderator: carlson1
I would appreciate some advice
"Happiness is a warm gun" - The Beatles - 1969
Commander
Commander
IMHO, the first time someone fires a weapon should not be in self defense. People have been known to drop the weapon the first time the fire, or worse yet, fire a second shot into the ceiling.
Is staying with you an option?
As for the visitor angle, trigger locks are cheap. I've gotten a couple for free. Many police departments give them away on request.
- Jim
Is staying with you an option?
As for the visitor angle, trigger locks are cheap. I've gotten a couple for free. Many police departments give them away on request.
- Jim
it took more intelligence to know the dangers than to blindly pass out a weapon... get her some nice OC until you can get her to the range... get her the brightest flashlight you can find while you're at it.
None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but licence.
John Milton
John Milton
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dukalmighty
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I personally if feasible would have her at the range learning to shoot the weapon ,and when she's not physically there trigger lock on same,wore thing in the world is to draw a weapon and have it taken away because you hesitate or can't pull the trigger on a perp
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end-to-end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them
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stevie_d_64
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I agree, get some range time quickly and safely enough to where she feels comfortable in handling and using the firearm safely...
Get her into some instruction and regular shooting near where she lives...
As soon as she sees that this is important to you, she'll begin to take it seriously as well...
As for the risks of one or more friends finding out she has a "gun", thats something you need to tell her that it is in her best interest to keep all of it to herself, its should not be a topic of conversation or even hinting to friends that "she can take care of herself"...All sorts of assumptions can be made and discussions made outside of that circle of friends will get out to folks that don't need to know...
I believe the whole situation with the neighbors noticing those tell tale signs of potential problems is good, that in the sense that she can be better aware and prepared for what we hope never happens...
But the first steps have been taken...You just need to follow through...
Get her into some instruction and regular shooting near where she lives...
As soon as she sees that this is important to you, she'll begin to take it seriously as well...
As for the risks of one or more friends finding out she has a "gun", thats something you need to tell her that it is in her best interest to keep all of it to herself, its should not be a topic of conversation or even hinting to friends that "she can take care of herself"...All sorts of assumptions can be made and discussions made outside of that circle of friends will get out to folks that don't need to know...
I believe the whole situation with the neighbors noticing those tell tale signs of potential problems is good, that in the sense that she can be better aware and prepared for what we hope never happens...
But the first steps have been taken...You just need to follow through...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
NRA - Life Member
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Μολών λαβέ!
Good advice, and I didn't think through this angle earlier.stevie_d_64 wrote:As for the risks of one or more friends finding out she has a "gun", thats something you need to tell her that it is in her best interest to keep all of it to herself, ...
Roomates can invite "friends" who are not such good friends, and the roomate's "friends" sometimes invite their own "friends."
At least a small safe bolted to the wall is called for, IMHO.
- Jim
Fear, anger, hatred, and greed. The devil's all-you-can-eat buffet.
Thanks, I appreciate the comments and support....I don't know why I didn't think about the OC....I've got some out in my car....I'll get it to her next time she is over....In the mean time, she has called the local PD and told them of the situation. Hopefully, they will increase their presence in her area.
"Happiness is a warm gun" - The Beatles - 1969
Commander
Commander
Get the lights fixed, and put in a police report that someone has been trying to enter - best time/date info you can provide.
There commercially-available locks that are noting more than a stick with a Y on one end, to go under the door knob, and a point at the other end that goes in a little pocket you screw to the floor (assume wood floor). You can get out by pushing it out of the way - no one can get in without destroying the door / bucking the rod. You can make the same kind of thing for her out of 1-1/2" EMT or 1" aircraft tubing. Or - drill 1/2" a hole in the floor, about 2" in from the door, and she can drop a piece of rebar in to block the door from opening more than 2".
You were right not to arm her and send her off untrained - actually unarmed; even if she had the little revolver she might not have the skill and the will to use it as needed, or the judgment to decide it was needed.
Fix the lights and tighten up her perimeter. Take her to the range, or ask a trusted friend to do so (training family may not be so wise). Send her to http://www.corneredcat.com for a woman's perspective on handguns.
Best of luck to you and her.
There commercially-available locks that are noting more than a stick with a Y on one end, to go under the door knob, and a point at the other end that goes in a little pocket you screw to the floor (assume wood floor). You can get out by pushing it out of the way - no one can get in without destroying the door / bucking the rod. You can make the same kind of thing for her out of 1-1/2" EMT or 1" aircraft tubing. Or - drill 1/2" a hole in the floor, about 2" in from the door, and she can drop a piece of rebar in to block the door from opening more than 2".
You were right not to arm her and send her off untrained - actually unarmed; even if she had the little revolver she might not have the skill and the will to use it as needed, or the judgment to decide it was needed.
Fix the lights and tighten up her perimeter. Take her to the range, or ask a trusted friend to do so (training family may not be so wise). Send her to http://www.corneredcat.com for a woman's perspective on handguns.
Best of luck to you and her.
Retractable claws; the *original* concealed carry
The two of you need to have a range date quickly.
As for storing the gun in her room, my uncle has a perfect set-up. He bolted one of the touch combination safes to his night stand. He can access his handgun while still laying down in bed. She would be able to access her gun quickly, yet it would still be a reasonable measure to keep it out of the hands of curious roommates and friends.
Although my uncle's safe isn't covered (and I walked past it several times before he pointed it out), a bulky comforter hanging off the side of the bed would do fine for concealment during the day.
ETA: That light needs to be fixed pronto. It also wouldn't hurt to attach a door alarm to the door--the kind that makes a loud, screaching noise when the door is opened. I think you can get them at Lowe's or Home Depot.
As for storing the gun in her room, my uncle has a perfect set-up. He bolted one of the touch combination safes to his night stand. He can access his handgun while still laying down in bed. She would be able to access her gun quickly, yet it would still be a reasonable measure to keep it out of the hands of curious roommates and friends.
Although my uncle's safe isn't covered (and I walked past it several times before he pointed it out), a bulky comforter hanging off the side of the bed would do fine for concealment during the day.
ETA: That light needs to be fixed pronto. It also wouldn't hurt to attach a door alarm to the door--the kind that makes a loud, screaching noise when the door is opened. I think you can get them at Lowe's or Home Depot.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
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Jungle Work
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Take your daughter to the range and teach her to shoot. Get her a quality pistol and a good riot gun. Teach her to shoot both of them. Put a motion sensor at the door that will turn on lights to let the occupants know someone is outside the door. Put locks and bolts on the doors and windows so that they can't be opened without lots of noise.
Explain to your daughter that she has the responsibility for her well being and safety now that she has left your home and is living on her own.
I have worked far too many rapes and murders of young college age girls to be complacent about this. It goes far beyond teaching your daughter to shoot and securing her residence, it involves the warrior or I will not be a victim mindset.
I raised two daughters. Both were shooter from an early age. I gave them both 3 inch Model 65 S&Ws at the age of 14 and 15. They kept them in their room, loaded. They knew how and when to use them.
Both are now married and have three children each, four if you count their husbands. One is a middle school Algebra Teacher and the other a RN. Both have their CHLs and carry most of the time. I've given them Browning HPs, Glocks and 20guage pump shotguns with 20 inch barrels.
My daughter in law killed some indians who were kicking down the front door of her home when she was ten years old. She lived on a farm and her parents were gone to the grocery store. She was left incharge of protecting her three younger brothers. She heard them breaking down the outside door to the mud room and she went a got her dads pistol (she had started shooting at an early age as did my daughters). She shot the first three through the door and a fourth was later found hiding near the house in a draw. The Sheriff was trying to counsel her about the shooting and she told him not to worry about it, she had to protect her brothers and the house. I've also given her several firearms as gifts.
The survival mindset is what keeps you alive.
Send me a PM if you want me to give you some info on easy ways to protect your or your daughters home from entry by perps bent on no good.
There are seveal simple and cheap ways to do it.
This is the last murder of a young college girl I worked and supervised the multi agency investigation before retirement.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/dea ... res673.htm
Jungle Work
Explain to your daughter that she has the responsibility for her well being and safety now that she has left your home and is living on her own.
I have worked far too many rapes and murders of young college age girls to be complacent about this. It goes far beyond teaching your daughter to shoot and securing her residence, it involves the warrior or I will not be a victim mindset.
I raised two daughters. Both were shooter from an early age. I gave them both 3 inch Model 65 S&Ws at the age of 14 and 15. They kept them in their room, loaded. They knew how and when to use them.
Both are now married and have three children each, four if you count their husbands. One is a middle school Algebra Teacher and the other a RN. Both have their CHLs and carry most of the time. I've given them Browning HPs, Glocks and 20guage pump shotguns with 20 inch barrels.
My daughter in law killed some indians who were kicking down the front door of her home when she was ten years old. She lived on a farm and her parents were gone to the grocery store. She was left incharge of protecting her three younger brothers. She heard them breaking down the outside door to the mud room and she went a got her dads pistol (she had started shooting at an early age as did my daughters). She shot the first three through the door and a fourth was later found hiding near the house in a draw. The Sheriff was trying to counsel her about the shooting and she told him not to worry about it, she had to protect her brothers and the house. I've also given her several firearms as gifts.
The survival mindset is what keeps you alive.
Send me a PM if you want me to give you some info on easy ways to protect your or your daughters home from entry by perps bent on no good.
There are seveal simple and cheap ways to do it.
This is the last murder of a young college girl I worked and supervised the multi agency investigation before retirement.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/dea ... res673.htm
Jungle Work
From this day to the ending of the world we in it shall be remembered. We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother. CURRAHEE
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Will938
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:08 am
- Location: Houston / College Station
I think one trip to the range could solve most issues here. Just keep things simple, buy her a 2 oz can a pepper spray (I bought my sister a 4 oz and she said it wouldn't fit in her purse 
Tell her to take that everywhere since the law doesn't really regulate it. Explain that it doesn't stop people but merely give you a chance to escape. She can leave the gun in her house or if you want to explain a few rules carry it in her car.
I'd explain deadly force like a game of sorts. The playing field is inside your house, once breached the game is on. Don't try to be a hero and play the game on a different field, or run down and try to play tag team when someone beats on your neighbor's door; invite the police to play that game. There are no warning shots or wounds, center mass only. Only shoot what you see. If it takes longer than a few seconds to retrieve the pistol in your house then consider that you'll be playing without it, so make sure its readily available. One of the most important things to remember about armed women is that they're less likely to use deadly force when it is justified, unless their family is involved. So I might remind her that they're doing this to themselves, don't question it, don't try to reason, stop them and worry about it later. Remember that if she hits the target and wins she gets snippet in page 14A and another 70 years to go about her life, if she lets the guy get close enough to touch her she gets an obituary. I know it sounds uncomfortable and offensive, but it needs to be.
My sister really didn't seem to comprehend the danger involved, the best way I could get her interested was by explaining the grim realities.
Tell her to take that everywhere since the law doesn't really regulate it. Explain that it doesn't stop people but merely give you a chance to escape. She can leave the gun in her house or if you want to explain a few rules carry it in her car. I'd explain deadly force like a game of sorts. The playing field is inside your house, once breached the game is on. Don't try to be a hero and play the game on a different field, or run down and try to play tag team when someone beats on your neighbor's door; invite the police to play that game. There are no warning shots or wounds, center mass only. Only shoot what you see. If it takes longer than a few seconds to retrieve the pistol in your house then consider that you'll be playing without it, so make sure its readily available. One of the most important things to remember about armed women is that they're less likely to use deadly force when it is justified, unless their family is involved. So I might remind her that they're doing this to themselves, don't question it, don't try to reason, stop them and worry about it later. Remember that if she hits the target and wins she gets snippet in page 14A and another 70 years to go about her life, if she lets the guy get close enough to touch her she gets an obituary. I know it sounds uncomfortable and offensive, but it needs to be.
My sister really didn't seem to comprehend the danger involved, the best way I could get her interested was by explaining the grim realities.
Commander,
I am a 22 y.o. guy going to college here in Dallas and worried about some of these same issues when I first began carrying. I remember being very concerned with the idea of a buddy trying to be funny, coming by to pull a prank after a few beers at night or something similarly stupid; then me waking up quickly and misinterpreting the situation. Knowing how to shoot is one thing, but everyone who takes on this responsibility needs to take the time to prepare mentally. Ie: thinking through potential situations, how will they react, what reactions do they need to be careful to avoid, in what situations will you actually be forced/decide to pull the trigger and can you?
I agree with Venus in that you should plan a trip to the range soon. It seems like in my area of Dallas we are constantly hearing stories of worse and worse crimes in areas that were previously considered very safe. While it varies significantly based on time and location, it does take Dallas P.D. far too long to respond to an emergency. When my neighbor recently awoke to a man burglarizing her apartment one morning, she was forced to call friends and neighbors for help, because 911 was coming back with busy signals!
I'll stop preaching about being able to defend yourself since this forum definitely qualifies as "the choir". I certainly agree with the other posters who think that your daughter should keep her weapon a secret. The only person that I shared my "secret" with was my roommate, who thankfully shares my same beliefs on gun safety. Trusting your daughter with this responsibility will not be a problem. But most, including myself, know people that we would prefer did not have access to weapons. It's these people that make it so important for her to keep her weapon locked up and hidden, especially at her age. If she's like most 21 y.o.'s it is just far too easy for a roommate to have a friend over who brings a friend... and you get the point.
Someone else mentioned cornered cat, which is something I have passed on as well. I suppose the only other advice would be not to push the issue TOO hard with your daughter. It took months for me to get my mother comfortable around firearms, and setting up lessons for her to learn some of the basics with an experienced female instructor in our area helped a lot.
I am a 22 y.o. guy going to college here in Dallas and worried about some of these same issues when I first began carrying. I remember being very concerned with the idea of a buddy trying to be funny, coming by to pull a prank after a few beers at night or something similarly stupid; then me waking up quickly and misinterpreting the situation. Knowing how to shoot is one thing, but everyone who takes on this responsibility needs to take the time to prepare mentally. Ie: thinking through potential situations, how will they react, what reactions do they need to be careful to avoid, in what situations will you actually be forced/decide to pull the trigger and can you?
I agree with Venus in that you should plan a trip to the range soon. It seems like in my area of Dallas we are constantly hearing stories of worse and worse crimes in areas that were previously considered very safe. While it varies significantly based on time and location, it does take Dallas P.D. far too long to respond to an emergency. When my neighbor recently awoke to a man burglarizing her apartment one morning, she was forced to call friends and neighbors for help, because 911 was coming back with busy signals!
I'll stop preaching about being able to defend yourself since this forum definitely qualifies as "the choir". I certainly agree with the other posters who think that your daughter should keep her weapon a secret. The only person that I shared my "secret" with was my roommate, who thankfully shares my same beliefs on gun safety. Trusting your daughter with this responsibility will not be a problem. But most, including myself, know people that we would prefer did not have access to weapons. It's these people that make it so important for her to keep her weapon locked up and hidden, especially at her age. If she's like most 21 y.o.'s it is just far too easy for a roommate to have a friend over who brings a friend... and you get the point.
Someone else mentioned cornered cat, which is something I have passed on as well. I suppose the only other advice would be not to push the issue TOO hard with your daughter. It took months for me to get my mother comfortable around firearms, and setting up lessons for her to learn some of the basics with an experienced female instructor in our area helped a lot.
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frankie_the_yankee
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Excellent advice here. Bolting a safe to the floor beside one's bed is also a good option.seamusTX wrote:Good advice, and I didn't think through this angle earlier.stevie_d_64 wrote:As for the risks of one or more friends finding out she has a "gun", thats something you need to tell her that it is in her best interest to keep all of it to herself, ...
Roomates can invite "friends" who are not such good friends, and the roomate's "friends" sometimes invite their own "friends."
At least a small safe bolted to the wall is called for, IMHO.
- Jim
And do take her to the range.
Ahm jus' a Southern boy trapped in a Yankee's body
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rguerra911
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i would have to agree with everyone on the this situation. you and her do need to get to the range quickly. the oc is an excellant idea and relatively cheap also. they also make taser devices for civilians now. (not so cheap but still better than shooting a friend or room mate). the alarm on the door is also a very good idea. i have them on all my windows in addition to my house alarm. simple installation. does not require any drilling or modifications. double sided tape and you all set. you could also put on a chain on the door. this way if they are able to get in then they will have to make some noise. she should make a police report (even if it is an m.i. report) just to make sure that everything is documented and request extra patrol. all of these are simple things that can be done until both u and her are comfortable with a firearm. just my .02 