church carry

[threeg45]

I was reading the new printing of the instructor manual and the book given to students. Both books still state that CHL is not allowed to carry in religous building. This could cause a problem, as the instructors and members of this forum state that the building needs to be posted 30.06.

[Kalrog]

That is an issue... if the manual doesn't match the statue I would err on the side of the statue.

[Keith B]

So it doesn't have subsection (i) down at the bottom of the staute?

[CodeJockey]

In the handbook I got mailed from the state entitled, "Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes," it specifically says in the Question / Answer part:

Q: Where can I not take my handgun?

A: Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at racetracks, at secured airport areas or within 1,000 feet of the premises of an execution on the day of execution. The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if more than half of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption, and from locations where high school, college or professional sporting events are taking place. You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them. Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws. See Texas Penal Code § 46.035.

Then from the penal code:

Texas Penal Code § 46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun By License Holder:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whther the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
.
.
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(4) on the premises of a hospital ...
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
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.
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(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So based on that, it seems pretty clear cut, unless things have changed, that a church without a 30.06 compliant sign is perfectly legal for concealed carry by a CHL.

[txinvestigator]

I was reading the new printing of the instructor manual and the book given to students. Both books still state that CHL is not allowed to carry in religous building. This could cause a problem, as the instructors and members of this forum state that the building needs to be posted 30.06.

What "book given to students" are you referring to? The booklet of laws quotes the law EXACTLY and includes the requirement that religious buildings have to be posted 30.06 to be off limits.

As Codejockey pointed out, the question answer section gives the same answer; "You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them"

Are you an instructor? All of MY instructor material has the correct information regarding 30.06 signs.

[Kalrog]

"You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them"

Slight topic change here... How can governmental meetings be enforceable posted?

[txinvestigator]

"You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them"

Slight topic change here... How can governmental meetings be enforceable posted?

Because under PC 46.035 meetings of a government entity are off limits IF they post a 30.06 sign. If you carry there on a posted sign, you will be charged under 46.035, not 30.06.

[Kalrog]

Because under PC 46.035 meetings of a government entity are off limits IF they post a 30.06 sign. If you carry there on a posted sign, you will be charged under 46.035, not 30.06.

Thank you. So 30.06 says governmental agencies can't make it illegal for CHLs to carry, but 46.035 says they can. I'm guessing that when 30.06 was changed, 46.035 was missed? Anyone else think we should add this to the "wish list" for the next legislative session?

[mr surveyor]

so governmental meeting are only off limits if posted??? I need to re-read the stat's, and I wouldn't mind a bit of convincing. Being an active board member of a governmental agency (ESD), we meet in a city owned building with no "court rooms". So, unless the entry into the building in which we meet is properly posted 30.06, then concealed carry is o.k. during the meetings?


duh...I had been so excited all this time about the hospital and nursing home 30.06 posting that I didn't even pay attention to item "c" being included.

Thanks for pointing that one out

[txinvestigator]

so governmental meeting are only off limits if posted??? I need to re-read the stat's, and I wouldn't mind a bit of convincing. Being an active board member of a governmental agency (ESD), we meet in a city owned building with no "court rooms". So, unless the entry into the building in which we meet is properly posted 30.06, then concealed carry is o.k. during the meetings?

Yes sir;

Texas Penal Code
§ 46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by License Holder.


(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
.
.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[mr surveyor]

You made me look


I was editing with a response while you were responding.

Thanks again for pointing out the inclusion of "c" in the defense to prosecution. And all this time I've been hassling with disarming in the parking lot

I re-read again... it's not "defense to prosecution", it's "does not apply" ...even better!

[threeg45]

I am not an instructor but on the state web site when I pulled up the laws and statutes the cover page said instructors copy. It had the dates 2007 - 2008 on the cover. I will re-read again and thanks for the information.

[KBCraig]

The 2009 legislative session is definitely time for some code housekeeping. Remove the statutory prohibition on carrying in "hospitals, nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship ..... (code, code, code, more code, lose most readers about here, more code....) but only if they post 30.06 signs".

[txinvestigator]

You made me look


I was editing with a response while you were responding.

Thanks again for pointing out the inclusion of "c" in the defense to prosecution. And all this time I've been hassling with disarming in the parking lot

I re-read again... it's not "defense to prosecution", it's "does not apply" ...even better!

It is not a defense to prosecution. That is a legal term meaning the person CAN be arrested and would have to prove he met the elements of the defense in court. It says C does not apply, which means the burden is on the state to prove that you did not meet the requirement.

;)