Firearms in a school zone

[Doug.38PR]

So what this boils down to is that even though we may be legally allowed to do all of these things (carry in other states around school zones, Carry shotguns loaded in car, carry handguns period in car) according to state law....the ATF could still arrest us for doing all of the above (unless we have a CHL issued by the state the school is located)

So what are we all supposed to do? Go out and buy an expensive lockable container. Pull up in a parking lot for five minutes while driving to the grocery store, unload our shotguns and handguns, lock them in containers, proceed 100 yards through the school zone, pull over in a parking lot, unlock and reload everything and then proceed?

OR

Hope we don't get caught.


In regard to say Louisiana, I've been told by a former LEO in Lousisiana that this is what a peace officer will pay attention to: http://law.justia.com/louisiana/codes/146/78741.html (See Secton C #4 & #5)

[seamusTX]

So what this boils down to is that even though we may be legally allowed to do all of these things (carry in other states around school zones, Carry shotguns loaded in car, carry handguns period in car) according to state law....the ATF could still arrest us for doing all of the above (unless we have a CHL issued by the state the school is located)

I will give my opinion on this law. It is strictly my opinion and not legal advice.

A version of this law was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court. Congress made a tiny change and passed the current version. It is rarely prosecuted because the Department of Justice knows it would be overturned again.

For this law to be prosecuted, state or local police would have to arrest somone and refer the case to the U.S. attorney. I've heard of it happening only once. That was a fugitive who entered a school building with a weapon while the police were chasing him.

The BATFE does not stop cars to see if people are carrying illegally in school zones.

- Jim

[Greybeard]

Well, I came across the following statement a day or three ago on an Arlington TX instructor's web site (txchl.com?, chltx.com? A Kimber dealer ...)



" NEW TEXAS LAW DOES NOT LET YOU CARRY A GUN LOADED
IN YOUR CAR WITHOUT A CHL! "

Maybe the school zone thing is what the guy is hanging his hat on ...

[seamusTX]

http://chltx.com/

I think it's wishful thinking on his part.

- Jim

[Crossfire]

Maybe he is afraid of that "lost revenue" problem.

[seamusTX]

That's what I was thinking.

I'm now convinced that the new car-carry law hasn't changed anything. Everyone who wants a CHL gets one, and everyone who wanted to carry without one already did.

- Jim

[LarryH]

In regard to say Louisiana, I've been told by a former LEO in Lousisiana that this is what a peace officer will pay attention to: http://law.justia.com/louisiana/codes/146/78741.html (See Secton C #4 & #5)

It looks as if this will keep you out of trouble.

"C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:

<snip>

"(5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle."

Or am I missing something?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well, I came across the following statement a day or three ago on an Arlington TX instructor's web site (txchl.com?, chltx.com? A Kimber dealer ...)



" NEW TEXAS LAW DOES NOT LET YOU CARRY A GUN LOADED
IN YOUR CAR WITHOUT A CHL! "

Maybe the school zone thing is what the guy is hanging his hat on ...

I guess this gets back to txinvestigator's statement about inaccurate statements by CHL Instructors. He is dead wrong. Yes, the federal gun-free school zone law could theoretically be a problem, but being realistic, I don't see an arrest being made a a prosecution going forward. As noted in another post, even COPS would be caught in this net.

Chas.

[Greybeard]

Yeah, ' sorry to see him resorting to scare tactics for, as Linda suggests, possible reduction of "lost revenue".

Quote: "I'm now convinced that the new car-carry law hasn't changed anything. Everyone who wants a CHL gets one, and everyone who wanted to carry without one already did."

Well Jim, time will tell, but I've had one lady renewal student tell me that her husband does not plan to renew "because he only carries in the car anyway".

And, nupe, not necessarily "everyone who wants one gets one". I spoken with lots of folks where time and/or money (or background) are still a major hurdle. (The truly "motivated" do seem to manage to get the CHL.)

I do predominantly agree with the last part of your statement. For at least the first couple of years of the CHL program, about 1/2 of my students said they were getting the CHL to be legal for what they had been doing anyway (car carry).

[seamusTX]

And, nupe, not necessarily "everyone who wants one gets one". I spoken with lots of folks where time and/or money (or background) are still a major hurdle. (The truly "motivated" do seem to manage to get the CHL.)

I distinguish between people who really want something versus those who wish for it. Those who want it make it happen.

There's aren't many people who are legal to own a firearm but disqualified for a CHL. Mainly those in arrears on child support, I would think. Even that group can usually get a Florida license.

- Jim

[tomc]

I have a question that maybe some of our LE guys here on the forum may help with. As I understand it, the "gun free school zone" is a federal law and is not duplicated in state law. Do our state or city LEOs have the authority to enforce federal law in this situation? Do federal LEOs have to be called to enforce this? What is the penalty if caught in violation of this?

[tomc]

Just bumping this up; still interested in some responses from our LE forum members as to how they would enforce this (see previous post). Are there any department policies tht address this?

[srothstein]

Well, to tell the truth, I don't think the average LEO would ever catch you or enforce the law unless there was some other crime committed. In all honesty, the federal law is almost useless because of that.

As with most laws (look at the drug laws), if there is a state law and a federal law, the police use the state laws 99% of the time. They will bump something to the feds only if there is a reason to try to upgrade the offense, such as a real bad guy with a long record. Even then, the suspect would get booked for the state violation and charges filed with the US Attorney if he will accept them. My experience is that they will not accept many cases straight from the local guys because they get a heavy load from the federeal agencies. If I had a case I wanted to go federal, i would call the appropriate federal agency and ask them to take it over.

the only law I knwo of that tends to go federal instead of state, where both apply, is bank robbery. And that is because the locals catch the guy most of the time but the FBI gets the credit without working too much on it. It makes them look good and bumps their stats for cases people will support being federal. The FBI is pretty good at catching the serial bank robbers but I think most of the time it is local PD's that actually solve the crime for them.

[pwd]

Someone please clarify for me the extent of a school zone. For example, on my way to work, I drive through a school zone, but it is still a major road. The school sits far off the road, and I don't go onto school property. Still, the school slows traffic down to 30 mph during certain hours. Can a school turn a county road into a "school zone" that could end up prohibiting otherwise legal carry?

[seamusTX]

The definition in federal law is 1,000 feet from the perimeter of the school grounds. You could be in a school zone and not even be able to see the school.

- Jim