New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
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New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
New Dillon 550 for Christmas. Loaded 10 Win. cases with 5.5 gr. of Titegroup under a Hornady 200 gr.FMJ-C/T ENC. Went out and fired 10 rounds with no problems. Came back and reloaded 150 rounds same setup. Yesterday took 50 rounds out with me and fired 47 rounds no problems. Number 48 failed at the head blowing out 10mm of the head and I think cooking off the one round in the mag well. This blew back through the grip causing me some second thoughts about reloading.
Seriously, I don't quit that easily but i don't plan on making the same mistake twice. I will try and relate my process in detail and if you have time to review and help me analyze your help would be appreciated.
Shooting 4" Kimber, weapon was cleaned and lubed properly before firing no history of misfeeds. modereately experienced shooter with no experience reloading. Six shots prior too failure were double taps.
As part of quality control all brass was of same manufacture. Components including exact powder charge weighed together to give me correct total weight of a correctly charged round.
OAL finished round 1.269 in Dia. at crimp .470 in Primers all seated properly
Observations: The round in the mag well appeared as if the round had been seated all the way into the brass so only about 1/8 in appeared above the brass. Any ideas on how this happened?
I know I was lucky and I feel like this probaly happens to many people who reload probably more often to beginners. I have been collecting brass at ranges and maybe I reladed a piece that was set to fail. Overpressure-for sure- a bad charge- with no experience I can't say for sure but I don't think I would have been able to seat with adouble charge.
Thanks, no reloading until i feel more confident.
Seriously, I don't quit that easily but i don't plan on making the same mistake twice. I will try and relate my process in detail and if you have time to review and help me analyze your help would be appreciated.
Shooting 4" Kimber, weapon was cleaned and lubed properly before firing no history of misfeeds. modereately experienced shooter with no experience reloading. Six shots prior too failure were double taps.
As part of quality control all brass was of same manufacture. Components including exact powder charge weighed together to give me correct total weight of a correctly charged round.
OAL finished round 1.269 in Dia. at crimp .470 in Primers all seated properly
Observations: The round in the mag well appeared as if the round had been seated all the way into the brass so only about 1/8 in appeared above the brass. Any ideas on how this happened?
I know I was lucky and I feel like this probaly happens to many people who reload probably more often to beginners. I have been collecting brass at ranges and maybe I reladed a piece that was set to fail. Overpressure-for sure- a bad charge- with no experience I can't say for sure but I don't think I would have been able to seat with adouble charge.
Thanks, no reloading until i feel more confident.
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
Please explain what you mean by the first statement. Did you weigh every loaded round?Chickenman wrote:Components including exact powder charge weighed together to give me correct total weight of a correctly charged round.
Observations: The round in the mag well appeared as if the round had been seated all the way into the brass so only about 1/8 in appeared above the brass. Any ideas on how this happened?
You could have double charged one round - 5.5gr charge doesn't take up much volume.
The second problem could be due to insufficient crimp or the excessive force of the previous round was so great it dislodged the bullet.
You are wise to cease your reloading until you find the cause of your mishap.

NRA Endowment Member
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
I take your meaning to be you weighed each fully loaded round and found each one to weigh the same correct predicted weight, in order to eliminate any double- or under-charged rounds. One bit of speculation -- with a bullet that weighs 200 grains, 5.5 grains is a fairly small percentage of that, and if somehow some extra powder, 2 or 3 grains, were tipped into the round, could that be within the margin of error of your measuring equipment? If so, might be enough to cause problems.Chickenman wrote:
Components including exact powder charge weighed together to give me correct total weight of a correctly charged round.
However, I tend to think it more likely that it was a weak piece of brass. Using same manufacturer is good, but picking up brass at the range, you have no idea how many times it was reloaded or what it was reloaded with. I know other people here say they use range brass "no problem" but I avoid it like the plague. I start with new brass that I ordered, or brass that came from factory ammo that I bought and fired and I picked up, and I keep my brass in "generations" -- when I start to see problems, I ditch the whole batch. Not as economical as others, but keeps me happy.
I've seen this on .45 ACP/1911 kaBoom. Round in chamber detonated, blew all the rounds in the magazined out, along with the floor plate, left the mag body in the pistol, shattered the grip panels. I helped the guy pick up the pieces, and the .45 ACP fully loaded round I picked up had the bullet shoved well inside the brass, like you described. I suspect it was the top round in the magazine and took the brunt of the force that shoved everything out the bottom.Chickenman wrote:
Observations: The round in the mag well appeared as if the round had been seated all the way into the brass so only about 1/8 in appeared above the brass. Any ideas on how this happened?
Also, I don't reload .45 ACP (yet), so I don't really know how 5.5gr of Titegroup is a "heroic" charge or not -- judging from Wildbill's comment, I guess not -- seems I recall the books say small volume charges with lots of airspace can also generate unusual pressures, but I'd have to go research that one again.
All in all, I'd start with new brass, keep track of how many times I reloaded it, and get fresh again at the first sign of problems. My $0.2.
Good luck.
elb
USAF 1982-2005
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
That is the way I took it, and I agree that you probably couldn't detect the difference.ELB wrote:I take your meaning to be you weighed each fully loaded round and found each one to weigh the same correct predicted weight, in order to eliminate any double- or under-charged rounds. One bit of speculation -- with a bullet that weighs 200 grains, 5.5 grains is a fairly small percentage of that, and if somehow some extra powder, 2 or 3 grains, were tipped into the round, could that be within the margin of error of your measuring equipment? If so, might be enough to cause problems. elb
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
I have been looking online and it looks like 5.5 grs Titegroup is pretty hot. What reloading manual are you using?
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
If there was a problem with inadequate crimp, it may have been the problem with the round that failed, as well.
With the bullet seated too deeply, pressures can rise to dangerous levels. The .40 S&W 180gr load has been known for the bullet seating deeper and raising pressures. The same issue is the basis for changing out the top rounds in your mags, as repeated chamberings can force the bullet deeper.
If the round that ruptured has also been seated deeper by recoil, that might have accounted for the failure.
At one point you say that one round in the mag cooked off, but then you offer an observation about the round in the mag.
I could use some clarification there.
I have no qualms about using 'range' brass, but I carefully inspect each one under a lighted magnifier.
With the bullet seated too deeply, pressures can rise to dangerous levels. The .40 S&W 180gr load has been known for the bullet seating deeper and raising pressures. The same issue is the basis for changing out the top rounds in your mags, as repeated chamberings can force the bullet deeper.
If the round that ruptured has also been seated deeper by recoil, that might have accounted for the failure.
At one point you say that one round in the mag cooked off, but then you offer an observation about the round in the mag.
I could use some clarification there.
I have no qualms about using 'range' brass, but I carefully inspect each one under a lighted magnifier.
Mike
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
no answers here, but some more questions:
# did you use a scale to adjust the powder charge being thrown by the Dillon
powder measure?
# I agree with a previous poster than 5.5gr of titegroup seems high. Where did the
data come from? The Hodgdon online data shows a max of 4.7 for 200gr jacketed bullets.
# are you using a separate crimp die, or using combination seater/crimp die? Its been
my experience that separate crimp dies do a better job, so I use them for all pistol
calibres
# did you use a scale to adjust the powder charge being thrown by the Dillon
powder measure?
# I agree with a previous poster than 5.5gr of titegroup seems high. Where did the
data come from? The Hodgdon online data shows a max of 4.7 for 200gr jacketed bullets.
# are you using a separate crimp die, or using combination seater/crimp die? Its been
my experience that separate crimp dies do a better job, so I use them for all pistol
calibres
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
Lots of variables here. Initially my thought was bad brass or a double charge. Could be an overload also.
I checked Hodgdon's web data they recommend a max of 5.2 gr of Titegroup with a 200 gr jacketed bullet. Lyman recommends a max of 5.1 gr with a 200 gr lead bullet. Both of these loads are on the cusp of being +P. Hodgdon recommends 4.7 gr as a starting load with a velocity of 812 fps the 5.2 gr load only produces 884. Is 72 fps worth the headaches?
I checked Hodgdon's web data they recommend a max of 5.2 gr of Titegroup with a 200 gr jacketed bullet. Lyman recommends a max of 5.1 gr with a 200 gr lead bullet. Both of these loads are on the cusp of being +P. Hodgdon recommends 4.7 gr as a starting load with a velocity of 812 fps the 5.2 gr load only produces 884. Is 72 fps worth the headaches?
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
Have you looked at the spent primers for indications of over pressure?
NRA Endowment Member
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
I second Mike1951's suggestion that it was inadequate crimp allowing push-back. This is the first place I would look.
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
Were you, perhaps, using new brass which you didn't resize?
Cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Norm
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
SOrry to hear this. Best wishes for a swift recovery into reloading. I had a similar experience in which I think it was a bad case. Problem with range brass is that you never know what you're really getting. Take a minute to sit and go through everything you did. Crimp makes a big difference with pressure as does plated vs. jacketed rounds. Luckily, there's a wealth of info here from the guys who have been reloading a while. Take a deep breath and take your time analyzing things. The answers will come.
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
There have been a few question about where i got the loading data for the round that gave me the problem.
Hornady 7th pg 899 900fps. 5.5 gr. (5.9 gr. also listed highlighted red)
Hornady 7th pg 899 900fps. 5.5 gr. (5.9 gr. also listed highlighted red)
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Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
I've reloaed thousands of rounds of 45 acp using range brass with no catastrophic failures,if you are loadng max or close to max loads and the moal decreases from bullet setback,in essence you are compressig the powder charge which will create over pressure and cause case failure or worse.I always start on the light load on the data and work my way up not the other way around.It's very possible when the round chambered it shoved the bullet into the case.I use the Lee second edition and for 200 grn lead bullet it shows 4.3 grns to 5.4 grns titegroup,I use 5.0 grns unique with a 200 grn lead bullet
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end-to-end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them
Re: New Guy Need Help-What went wrong
I agree, recoil is pushing the bullet back in the case, raising pressure, there can be several reasons, not adjusting the crimp die down enough, seating the bullet deep enough the crimp is on the ogive, an oversize expander plug may be expanding the case neck too big.
After you resize a case, can you push a bullet in by hand? If so, the plug is too big. You can get an extra expander plug and polish it down a .001" at a time and try until the bullet is properly held.
Lee makes a "Factory crimp die" that really crimps the whole thing, I use one on .44 mag. and it does keep bullets from setting back in the case.
After you resize a case, can you push a bullet in by hand? If so, the plug is too big. You can get an extra expander plug and polish it down a .001" at a time and try until the bullet is properly held.
Lee makes a "Factory crimp die" that really crimps the whole thing, I use one on .44 mag. and it does keep bullets from setting back in the case.
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