Info on England's crime stats

[Venus Pax]

Can someone please point me to a few credible websites with Austrailia and England's crime stats?
Apparently, a member on another forum thinks I'm making this up.

[seamusTX]

This document was widely discussed last year:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cnscj.htm

I don't know what you're saying, but the fact is that the U.K. has a higher overall rate of violent crime than the U.S. Most of it is assault. They have a much lower homicide rate. However, since they banned handguns, they have a rising rate of homicide (all types) and crimes committed with firearms.

It's also worth noting that 100 years ago, the U.K. had the lowest murder rate ever seen anywhere in all of history, and at that time they had no form of "gun control."

- Jim

[Venus Pax]

Thanks, Jim.
I knew we had discussed it in depth on the forum, but this person certainly wasn't going to take my word for it (and wisely so!).

[ELB]

Venus Pax,

Suggest you peruse Dave Kopel's website, along with John Lott's and perhaps Clayton Cramer's. Mr. Lott has graciously entertained my email questions and pointed me to sources of data, so you may want to email him with your question. Also note that he actually has a couple or three older websites that have other data, I think you can get to them from his current one.

Also, this law enforcement-related amicus brief from the Heller/2A case references crime rates in other countries -- I haven't read the whole thing, but I saw references to them when I skimmed through it. You can get some of the crime rates there, and the citations will provide some original sources.

You may find the article I pasted in below of help. I would also go to the UK Times website (and other UK newspapers) and do some searches -- I've read a number of articles on crime rates in Britain, but apparently I only saved the one below. The Labor government has been caught falsely depressing the crime rates for a lot of crimes, not just the gun-related ones. I've also read that burglars in the UK favor "hot" burglaries (picking homes where people are at home) because it is easier to threaten the occupants and find out where the valuables are than to ransack an unoccupied home. Burglars and residents both know that people who try to defend themselves are in danger of being prosecuted by the Crown. One policeman even advised leaving your car keys on a table by the front door, so that maybe then the burglars won't invade your bedroom and beat you into giving up the keys!

The UK is a mess.

Here's the article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 328368.ece

From The Sunday Times
August 26, 2007
Ministers 'covered up' gun crime
David Leppard
THE government was accused yesterday of covering up the full extent of the gun crime epidemic sweeping Britain, after official figures showed that gun-related killings and injuries had risen more than fourfold since 1998.
The Home Office figures - which exclude crimes involving air weapons - show the number of deaths and injuries caused by gun attacks in England and Wales soared from 864 in 1998-99 to 3,821 in 2005-06. That means that more than 10 people are injured or killed in a gun attack every day.
This weekend the Tories said the figures challenged claims by Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, that gun crime was falling. David Davis, the shadow home secretary, tells her in a letter today that the “staggering findings� show her claims that gun crime has fallen are “inaccurate and misleading�.
The political row erupted as Merseyside police continued to question a 15-year-old boy about the murder last week of Rhys Jones in Croxteth, Liver-pool. The 11-year-old was returning from football training when he was shot by a hooded teenager on a bicycle.


The murder of 11-year-old Rhys Jones has brought into focus the number of child victims of gang-related gun-crime

Experts are examining a BMX bike abandoned in another area of the city. Six other teenagers, including two girls, from the Croxteth and Norris Green areas were in custody last night. Two others have been released on bail.
Senior officers believe Rhys died because he walked into the line of fire between the gunman and his intended target, who is thought to have been one of three teenagers 30-70 yards away.
Bernard Hogan-Howe, the chief constable of Merseyside, said yesterday: “We still need help in solving this crime. We need witnesses who are prepared to stand up in court.�
Hogan-Howe said he had invested “a huge amount of policing� into the gang-related problems in the Croxteth area and had had a great deal of success.
A minute’s applause was held yesterday at Goodison Park stadium where Everton, the team Rhys loved, were playing Black-burn Rovers. The 11-year-old’s murder has led to a public outcry against Britain’s gang and gun culture and a furious political debate about the government’s efforts to tackle the problem.
Smith last night proposed the setting up of neutral “drop-off zones� where illegal weapons could be handed in. “This means we can actually take that gun out of circulation and stop it from doing harm,� she said.
The Home Office has repeatedly denied gun crime is rising. Last week it pointed to the latest annual crime statistics, which appeared to show that overall gun crime was 13% down on the previous year.
But in his letter to Smith, released today, Davis said these claims were contradicted by figures “buried� in a Home Office statistical bulletin, published ear-lier this year. “[Here] we find the most revealing indication of the true gun-re-lated violence sweeping Britain. Gun-related killings and injuries (excluding air weapons) have increased over fourfold since 1998,� he wrote.
The Home Office said: "We remain fully committed to tackling gang culture and gun and knife crime through responsive policing, tough powers and funding prevention projects."
Rhys’s killing fell on the anniversary of the fatal shooting of Liam Smith, a senior figure in a local gang known as the Strand Gang. Several members of the rival Croxteth Crew were found guilty of his murder.
Locals had said they believed members of the Strand Gang were planning a reprisal shooting to mark the anniversary.
“We always deploy additional resources around these anniversaries,� said Chief Superintendent Chris Armitt. “But we are over half a mile here from Croxteth, and Norris Green is further away again. The additional resources [were] focused only where gangs predominantly operate.�
Extract from letter by David Davis, shadow home secretary, to Jacqui Smith, home secretary, August 24, 2007
Dear Jacqui, We are all concerned at the rising tide of violent crime that has manifested itself this week in a spate of shocking killings, including the tragic death of young Rhys Jones. You told GMTV this morning that “statistics aren’t a help but gun crime is down�. That is an extraordinary claim.
According to Home Office figures, gun crime (excluding air weapons) has almost doubled since Labour took office. The annual crime figures, released by the Home Office in July, suggest a 13% decrease on the previous year, which neglects the 18% increase in firearm homicides.
However, perhaps most telling is the massive increase in gun violence, disclosed on 25 January of this year (Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence 2005-06, Home Office). Buried at page 36 . . . we find [that] . . . gun-related killings and injuries (excluding airguns) have increased by over fourfold since 1998.
In light of this information, your claim that gun crime is down is both inaccurate and misleading. One clear fact on gun-related violence is that if you don’t count it, you won’t be able to tackle it. Your predecessors opted for spin over substance. I hope that is a path you will avoid and would be grateful for an explanation of what action you plan.
Yours sincerely, David Davis

Plz let me know what the other forum is where you have the '"non-believer." Maybe I'll find time to stop by and help.

Best wishes.

elb

[Hyunchback]

And the fine folks at the Brady Center would ask that you NOT mention that prior to banning handguns very, very few British cops carried guns but that SINCE they banning of handguns they have had to increase the number of armed cops.

Please do NOT mention that the UK is an ISLAND with less total coastal area to patrol than Florida. If they can't keep thugs from getting guns when guns were few to start with then it is UTTERLY impossible to keep guns from thugs in the United States.

And finally they absolutely insist that you not point out that any prohibition on arms is unconstitutional.

[anygunanywhere]

If there are no guns in the populace then why do the uk cops need guns???

I'm so confused.

[Venus Pax]

Plz let me know what the other forum is where you have the '"non-believer." Maybe I'll find time to stop by and help.

Best wishes.

elb

I'm surrounded by Canadians and coastal folk there. Please drop by.
http://dgroups.bhg.com/dgroups/index.js ... agendebate

[Hyunchback]

If there are no guns in the populace then why do the uk cops need guns???

I'm so confused.

You aren't supposed to ask that question!

BTW, sitting through one of Obama's speeches tonight I found something he left out.

"When D.C. said that American citizens could not own handguns we answere 'Yes, we can!'"

Don't ask when he's going to pick up THAT one for his campaign.