Taser Man Catches On Fire

Post by **carlson1** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:32 am

I know it is not CHL issue, but I felt it was a good read. . .

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... es-volusia

DAYTONA BEACH -- Dennis Crouch had already slashed himself. And when he refused to drop his knife, Daytona Beach police Officer Betsy Cassidy decided she had no choice.

"Taser! Taser!" Cassidy shouted as she sent a two-pronged wire, packing 50,000 volts, at Crouch's chest. What happened next stunned everyone.

A Taser probe pierced the pocket of his khaki shirt -- and ignited the butane lighter inside. Cassidy's pocket exploded in flames.

"The subject," recounted Sgt. Al Tolley in a subsequent report, "immediately dropped the knife."

Officers grabbed Crouch, threw him to the ground and rolled him around until the flames went out, Tolley said. The 53-year-old Daytona Beach man was taken to Halifax Medical Center with minor burns and two self-inflicted stab wounds in his stomach and chest.

Speaking by cell phone from his hospital bed Tuesday, Crouch said he had been drinking at the time and didn't remember everything that happened the night before.

"Why did they get into my house?" he asked of police. "I didn't invite them into my house. They came into my bedroom and shot me with the Taser, and it [the lighter] exploded."

The bizarre burning ended an evening that records show began with Cassidy drinking at a friend's house Monday, then apparently becoming depressed about his medical and financial problems. Suddenly, he grabbed a kitchen knife and stabbed himself in the chest and stomach, police records show.

The friend got scared and called police about 9:20 p.m. Crouch fled for home on nearby North Grandview Avenue.

"He stuck the knife in his belly, ma'am, so I thought that was the time to call you," the friend told a 911 dispatcher during a 14-minute call. "And he was bleeding, so I said, 'Well, I can't put up with this.' "

When he got home, Crouch began arguing with his 54-year-old wife, Cecilia, about going to Las Vegas, according to police reports.

Police say Cecilia Crouch ran from her home in fear when her husband again went for a knife. Officers had to kick the door down to get into the apartment, according to reports. Crouch stood near a back bedroom with an 8-inch knife to his stomach.

After repeated requests for Crouch to drop the knife, Cassidy went for her Taser. That's when the lighter ignited.

Officials with Taser International -- which manufactures the nonlethal weapon that uses a shock to incapacitate dangerous people -- said they've never heard of anything quite like this before.

"I would call this beyond a rare fluke," spokesman Steve Tuttle said.

Tolley said the department is investigating the Monday incident, but so far nothing seems to be amiss with the Taser.

Crouch didn't seem too concerned about his run-in with police and clearly had other priorities Tuesday night.

"You're burning my minutes," he said about his cell phone. "It's not 9 o'clock yet."

Erin Ailworth can be reached at eailworth@orlandosentinel.com or 386-851-7925. Ken Ma can be reached at kma@orlandosentinel.com or 386-851-7914.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:26 am

LEO's they said it was a fluke beyond imagination. Are we seeing more of these that are not working like the maker & departments want them too? I am for you guys having every option you can (& I know the deadly force law says you cannot use deadly force to stop a suicide)

go figure that one. I cannot document my thoughts but just seem to be remembering that I have seen several accounts. My general thoughts are that liberal courts & judges have decided the BG's need protecting more than LEO's or the good guys.

ElGato · Post by **ElGato** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:20 am

On the LIGHTER side, this put's a new meaning to the term that has been used for tasering " lit him up "

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:39 am

The most important part of the entire story---"He immediately dropped the knife"

IMHO, the guys is lucky he was not shot. Sounds to me like a scary situation! My best to the people that deal with these folks...I sure don't want to do it anymore

Post by **Crossfire** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:01 pm

ElGato wrote:On the LIGHTER side, this put's a new meaning to the term that has been used for tasering " lit him up "

You are just TOO funny!

If that isn't something to make you give up drinking, then I don't know what is!

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:10 pm

longtooth wrote: . . . Are we seeing more of these that are not working like the maker & departments want them too? . . . My general thoughts are that liberal courts & judges have decided the BG's need protecting more than LEO's or the good guys.

I too am concerned about the proliferation Tasers. We are seeing more and more cases where people "shot" with them are dying. If a LEO is using a Taser under circumstances that would justify them using deadly force, then the LEO shouldn't face any liability if the subject dies. However, Tasers and stun-guns are being used in situations where deadly force would not be justified and I'm concerned LEO's are going to be facing criminal and/or civil liability, not to mention people dying who shouldnâ€™t be. The first few cases seemed to be aberrations, but with the number of deaths rising, neither LEO's nor their departments are going to be able to simply say the manufacture said it was safe and non-lethal.

As to this particular case, I don't see how this could have happed exactly as stated, unless the lighter was virtually empty. I've seen a photo of a guy who had one in his shirt pocket at work and it blew up when "buckshot" from a welder burned though the plastic and ignited it. A quarter of his chest was blown away! The article said the lighter was equivalent to something like 1/4 or 1/2 stick of dynamite. Oh well, it's rare so maybe it could happen as reported.

Regards,
Chas.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:42 pm

One of my colleagues used to work at the Bi-State Justice Building, for Arkansas Department of Corrections. (ADC operated the jail, which is partly in Texas, until it was privately contracted to Civigenics.)

He told the story of how they had to change their chemical spray. It seems that their forced cell technique was to hose someone down with chemical spray, then send the team in, with the first man carrying a shock shield. (This is like a riot shield married to a stun gun. The front is covered with conductive strips, and the operator can apply shocks by thumbing a button.)

Anyhoo, they set a guy on fire. Burned him up pretty badly. It seems that no one realized their chemical spray had an alcohol carrier instead of a water carrier. They basically doused the guy in isopropyl, then struck a spark.

Oops!

Kevin

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:58 pm

KBCraig wrote:One of my colleagues used to work at the Bi-State Justice Building, for Arkansas Department of Corrections. (ADC operated the jail, which is partly in Texas, until it was privately contracted to Civigenics.)

He told the story of how they had to change their chemical spray. It seems that their forced cell technique was to hose someone down with chemical spray, then send the team in, with the first man carrying a shock shield. (This is like a riot shield married to a stun gun. The front is covered with conductive strips, and the operator can apply shocks by thumbing a button.)

Anyhoo, they set a guy on fire. Burned him up pretty badly. It seems that no one realized their chemical spray had an alcohol carrier instead of a water carrier. They basically doused the guy in isopropyl, then struck a spark.

Oops!

Kevin

Pepper sprayed, hit with a shield, shocked, and set on fire.... Now that's one BAD DAY

Was the inmate more coopertive in the future?

Baytown · Post by **Baytown** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:56 pm

The problem I see with the Taser is the media is not reporting the whole story. We never here about all the Taserings that occurred in one night that ended absolutely wonderfully. We only hear about the guy who has been fighting w/ police, is overweight, lengthy history of drugs...etc The media is not reporting that almost every officer who carries a Taser has been hit with it. I do not think the Taser is the cause of death, it is that death occurred and a Taser had been used.

We do not use the Taser in place of deadly force, it is a compliance tool. It is used when someone is not doing what they are told to do and physical contact may be needed. I think a lot of people consider it to be higher on the "use of force ladder" than it is.

Glenn

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:21 pm

Baytown, a post like this is one reason I am so thankful for as many LEO's as there are here. We want to hear your end of this too.

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:31 pm

I was a TDC guard for many years....at one point we had access to an "electronic capture shield"! It was an effective device when used properly. I being the biggest man in a group was once called to demonstrate the authority of this tool, on the receiving end of course.....I would have barked like a dog while jumping on one leg if it would have stopped himfrom shocking me! Compliance is exactly what he got, though I would have gladly ran ten miles to not get hit with the darn thing to begin with!

I think I still have a twitch from that thing!

Jason

Kalrog · Post by **Kalrog** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:36 pm

Of course the media is going to only tell about the times that it goes wrong. What kind of a headline is "millions go to work today and are just fine"? It sure can put a bad spin on things though.

Baytown wrote:We do not use the Taser in place of deadly force, it is a compliance tool. It is used when someone is not doing what they are told to do and physical contact may be needed. I think a lot of people consider it to be higher on the "use of force ladder" than it is.

And this is my problem with the Taser. Not the tool, but the way it has been sold and is used. If someone is pointing a taser at me, and I know it is a taser, I still have to go with the assumption that I am under a threat of serious bodily harm or death. There is no telling what they can do to me after I get hit with it... The fact that people DO die from it might mean that it is time to rethink its location on the "use of force" ladder.

Post by **carlson1** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:17 am

jbirds1210 wrote:I was a TDC guard for many years....at one point we had access to an "electronic capture shield"! It was an effective device when used properly. I being the biggest man in a group was once called to demonstrate the authority of this tool, on the receiving end of course.....I would have barked like a dog while jumping on one leg if it would have stopped himfrom shocking me! Compliance is exactly what he got, though I would have gladly ran ten miles to not get hit with the darn thing to begin with!
I think I still have a twitch from that thing!

Jason

In 1984 we captured two escaped convicts from a unit in Palestine TX. They fought us. One of the TDC guys (Sgt. Sparkie I think) shot him with a taser. I was putting handcuffs on him and got part of the shock. I wet me pants, boots, etc. . . I complied also

Baytown · Post by **Baytown** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:40 pm

People do not die from being hit by a Taser, but it is true what can happen to one while "under the influence" of the Taser is a concern if the pointer is not the police.

If a person pointed a Taser at me, I would use deadly force in order to stop it. I would be afraid they would take my gun and use it on me while I was incapacitated. This also holds true for pepper spray and ASP as well, it would just not be limited to a Taser.

Glenn