30.06 on one door

[nedmoore]

What about buildings that have multiple entrances but only one 30.06 on only the main entrance? I was at a surgery center in College Station last week that had proper 30.06 signage on the main entrance but later that day I had to park in the rear and there was nothing on the rear doors. I decided to look at other entrances such as the loading dock, and the employee entrance and those did not have any 30.06 either. This was the first time that I used the main entrance as I usually go through the loading dock because I have equipment with me.

Also, the definition of hospital is confusing me. I work at hospitals, Surgery Centers, etc. When it comes to healthcare insurance, they pay more or less depending on where the surgery takes place. A "Surgery Center" is not considered a hospital, even though they basically do the same thing. The main difference is that the patients go home the same day of their surgery. I was at a small facility in Kingwood last week that had a "ghostbusters" sign on the front door but like the one in College Station nothing in the rear entrance.

I have a business that sells/rents surgical equipment and I have to be in the operating room for surgeries. I do not plan to carry while in these facilities, I just wanted to hear any feedback that you guys might have. Scratch that, might keep a handgun in my briefcase.

[srothstein]

On the first question, the law does not require it to be at every door, but it only applies once you have received the notice. Since you now know about this location, it would apply even if you go in other doors.

On the second question, the definition of a hospital or nursing home is based on what the license says. Interestingly, if you look in the Health and Safety Code, a hospital has to have two or more beds used for unrelated patients for at least 24 hours. A nursing home has to have 4 or more beds. Thanks for getting me to look that up. It is always better to know exactly what the law means, especially when I get cross references to other codes I don't normally read.

[nedmoore]

Steve, a Two bed hopsital! I do not think that I would want to go there! I once saw an emergency room in Center, Tx that had two beds in the E.R. I was working on the ambulance in college, we called it the "Band-aid Station" We would normally drive by it and go to Shreveport, they did not even have a physician on location, had to call him from his house! That was one screwed up town. I hope that it is better now.

[Zero_G]

And in a similar vein, can a hospital be considered an educational institution if it's a teaching hospital (physician and nurse training)?

Keith

[bpet]

I think I understand your question about 30.06 and I think Steve provided a reasonable answer but what is the concern about the legal definition of a hospital. I was under the impression that they are no longer listed as prohibited and any restriction is purely dependent on 30.06. Am I wrong?

[Venus Pax]

On the first question, the law does not require it to be at every door, but it only applies once you have received the notice. Since you now know about this location, it would apply even if you go in other doors.

Can you really be charged if you haven't seen a sign, nor been given verbal notice?

This doesn't sound reasonable to me. If there was no sign at the entrance, and no one told you to leave, how can you rightfully be charged with trespass?

Mars & I went to visit a friend in the hospital today. I didn't see a 30.06 sign at the entrance, so I entered. Knowing that so many hospitals are posted, I looked all around for one upon entry. Had my purse been tangled on my shirt and I accidentally exposed the big girl, could I have been charged (assuming hypothetically that another entrance was posted)?

I'm not trying to start an argument. I just want to be clear on this, as I'm sure others are as well.

[srothstein]

Can you really be charged if you haven't seen a sign, nor been given verbal notice?

This doesn't sound reasonable to me. If there was no sign at the entrance, and no one told you to leave, how can you rightfully be charged with trespass?

Ok, here is the way I see the law. First, the law says you have to receive the notice, but it defines adequate notice as a prominently placed sign.

So, if someone only posts the main entrance to their location, you are okay if you never use that entrance. You have to receive the notice. Now, this is a debatable point since the law does not say it has to be posted at every entrance, so some officers are going to take the one sign at the main entrance as good enough. I used to read the law that way too, but then I thought more about ti and realized it does say you have to receive notice. If you never saw the sign, you did not receive the notice.

But, in the case of this poster, he has finally come through the one entrance and seen the sign. He has received notice. There is no expiration to that notice. If he comes back, even if he passes through a different entrance, he has received notice. This is just like a verbal notice. If you are told one time, you do not have to be told every time.

So, I think you could be charged if you did know the sign was there and just avoided it, if it is a legal sign. Of course, this brings into question if you could be charged the first time if you know the sign is there because I went and saw it and told you about it. In that case, I do not think you could be charged, but it makes for an interesting test case on this law.

And Bpet, the definition of hospital makes a difference to some people only because they want to know what they would be charged with. If it is a legal hospital, you could be charged with a violation of 46.035, unlawfully carrying by a CHL. If it is anyplace else, you would be charged with 30.06. This may make a difference to some, but the penalty is the same in this case (a class A misdemeanor either way).

[Keith B]

Can you really be charged if you haven't seen a sign, nor been given verbal notice?

This doesn't sound reasonable to me. If there was no sign at the entrance, and no one told you to leave, how can you rightfully be charged with trespass?

Ok, here is the way I see the law. First, the law says you have to receive the notice, but it defines adequate notice as a prominently placed sign.

So, if someone only posts the main entrance to their location, you are okay if you never use that entrance. You have to receive the notice. Now, this is a debatable point since the law does not say it has to be posted at every entrance, so some officers are going to take the one sign at the main entrance as good enough. I used to read the law that way too, but then I thought more about ti and realized it does say you have to receive notice. If you never saw the sign, you did not receive the notice.

But, in the case of this poster, he has finally come through the one entrance and seen the sign. He has received notice. There is no expiration to that notice. If he comes back, even if he passes through a different entrance, he has received notice. This is just like a verbal notice. If you are told one time, you do not have to be told every time.

So, I think you could be charged if you did know the sign was there and just avoided it, if it is a legal sign. Of course, this brings into question if you could be charged the first time if you know the sign is there because I went and saw it and told you about it. In that case, I do not think you could be charged, but it makes for an interesting test case on this law.

And Bpet, the definition of hospital makes a difference to some people only because they want to know what they would be charged with. If it is a legal hospital, you could be charged with a violation of 46.035, unlawfully carrying by a CHL. If it is anyplace else, you would be charged with 30.06. This may make a difference to some, but the penalty is the same in this case (a class A misdemeanor either way).

Great post and good examples Steve.

[bpet]

Thanks for the response Steve.

I went back and re-read 46.035 and now understand the issue.

As I understand it, if it is a hospital and if it is posted with legit 30.06, and if you are a CHL, and you decide to carry anyway, you can be charged using either 30.06 or 46.035 as a basis.

Thanks.

Bill