Do I intervene? Interactive Case History

[Venus Pax]

In fact, I have done as stated on several occasions.

I reported a neighbor in the recent past. She may choose to stay with him, but I wanted to start a paper trail incase she ever changes her mind.

[ELB]

OK, let's pretend you are not Joe Baggadonuts getting the daylights stomped out of you by a guy and two gals.

Instead, let's pretend you are you, Bob or Betty CHL-holder, you are passing by and notice some guy you've never seen before getting stomped by a guy and two gals you've never seen before...

What do you do?

elb

[Venus Pax]

OK, let's pretend you are not Joe Baggadonuts getting the daylights stomped out of him by a guy and two gals.

Instead, let's pretend you are you, Bob or Betty CHL-holder, you are passing by and notice some guy you've never seen before getting stomped by a guy and two gals you've never seen before...

What do you do?

elb

I call 911. I give location & descriptions.
As a rule, I let the LEOs deal with it unless it's my family or close friends. My CHL instructor had an excellent little test for deciding whether or not to get involved with the gun: Do you know this person well enough to know who does/does not have a right to put hands on them w/o asking? Otherwise, you could be involving yourself in a domestic dispute, and Good Samaritan laws do not cover CHL holders at this time.

[ELB]

Legally speaking, getting involved in a domestic dispute does not seem to be the problem (altho the "victim" may not appreciate it, as we have seen in this little story). The legal problem seems to be knowing who is the good guy and who is not. Without seeing the whole story develop, you may be riding in just as the good guys get the upper hand. Or maybe there are NO good guys here.

However, that did not deter Bobby By-stander, as we see in this installment:

A passing motorist stopped his car, pulled a gun and demanded the trio stop beating the man, Heller said.

Now here's where it gets yet even more interesting:

Police responded to several calls reporting a man holding people at gunpoint.

Guess what happens next?

elb

p.s. There's only one more installment of this little drama, I'm getting tired and will be heading off to bed soon...

[Venus Pax]

[quote="ELB"]The legal problem seems to be knowing who is the good guy and who is not. [quote]
This is why it's best to limit one's involvement to the cell phone, unless ofcourse you know the victim(s) well.

[lawrnk]

My CHL instructor said "you are not a hero. Do not make your parents bury you. Your wife and your children come before any stranger. No one is more important. Act with that in mind."

[ELB]

Ok, time to put this to bed.

Officers determined the man with a gun had a legitimate concealed weapons permit and was trying to help, Heller said.

Officers arrested an 18-year-old Ann Arbor man and two 19-year-old women. They were released pending charges.

The victim [Joe Baggadonuts] was not seriously injured.

So apparently the cops sorted out the situation in good order, and justice, more or less, prevailed. I was somewhat fascinated by this event, because it has a lot of the elements discussed about interventions, and all in one case: (apparent) domestic dispute, presumed victim turning on would-be rescuer, two cases of strangers witnessing apparent assaults, one quite vicious in appearance, and having to decide what to do on the spot, CHL, cops responding to CHL'er without obviously knowing that was the case. If I were a CHL instructor, I'd use this as an illustration.

Minding your own business would certainly keep you out of other people's problems. Of course this works in both directions...

Here's the original:

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008 ... print.html

elb

[KD5NRH]

Minding your own business would certainly keep you out of other people's problems. Of course this works in both directions...

IMO, in the first case, I would have gone for concealment and/or cover, and dialed 911. Preferably, I would get to my car where I can make the call and be ready to follow, move to intervene, or escape, and have the gun ready out-of-sight just in case.

In the second incident, there was an active attack going on, and the victim would be injured more with any delay, so I'd agree with taking immediate action, but I'd probably try to maneuver close enough to use pepper spray from inside the car first - again with the gun ready and out of sight, and a clear path to just punch the gas and escape if need be.

[KC5AV]

20/20 is airing some hidden camera videos this Friday night. I don't know that any of them will involve self-defense or defense-of-other situations, but it's fun to sit back and ask yourself if you'd get involved in any of them.

It's a two-hour show this week, so it probably comes on at 8pm. I've got it set to record.