Technically NOT 51% but still posting THE SIGN

[Rokyudai]

I'm having difficulty searching the forum for this specific situation. Please bear with me.

I frequent a local pub that has been posted 51% since it's opening. Somehow (they believe a disgruntled former worker perhaps), the owners were informed on and ultimately audited by a code enforcement agency (I'm not sure if ABC or ATF can do this or would be that agency). They found that they no longer or haven't been deriving more than 51% profit from alcohol sales. As a result, they have been informed by the authorities (ABC? ATF?) that smoking is no longer permitted on the premises. I of course have another motive to look at this....

My question is whether or not the 51% sign still hanging up is applicable should someone decide to CC there. Now I know what my gut tells me....I should and will likely talk with the owner whom I'm good friends in time. Although they have GREAT food and seem to do well in the tourist area, I know the "No Smoking" may hurt them...I don't want to add to the situation by bringing this CHL issue to question immediately. I would appreciate some fact backed opinions and if anybody has run into something similar (yes I'm stretching) to share.

Thanks!

[nitrogen]

This has come up before. The best thing you can do is ask to look at the liquor license.

Our own srothstein is the go-to guy for things like this. Here's what he's said in the past:

Again, the important part is what the TABC has determined on the sales. There are now package stores that sell for on premises consumption also (wine-only package stores may do this) and have legal 51 signs.

Ask to see the actual TABC license and look for the "Sign=Red" line. This is what will confirm to you that the premises is off limits according to TABC. If he does not have this line on the license (it will instead read "Sign=Blue"), then you can carry and notify TABC that he has the wrong signs.

All that matters for ccw is what the TABC says on the license, not any other agency.

[texasgirl]

If you don't feel like asking about the license at the pub call the TABC office for your area. We had a Texas Road House near where we live incorrectly posted. I called TABC to verify their status and let them(TABC) know the sign was incorrect. It took about 4 calls over a few weeks but they now have the correct sign up.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/contact/Maps.htm

[Hyunchback]

Is this a chicken way of telling CHLers to leave their guns outside?

The 51% sign isn't a choice, it's a law. For a business that is NOT a 51% establishment to post the wrong sign COULD be an innocent mistake however their license is the one that tells them what they are. Red=51% sign. Blue=No 51% sign. Hard to plead stupidity when it's as simple as a home pregnancy test.

I agree that a business owner has the right to tell me to keep my gun out. But I DEMAND that he give the correct legal reason and not hide behind an incorrect sign.

Have the guts to proclaim yourself a proud, disarmed victim so I know to leave you to the wolves who will be showing up.

[Rokyudai]

Thanks Nitro for the quote. I remembered vaguely about the color codes, I just wasn't putting the information together correctly.

Consider my question answered folks.

Thanks again,
Rok

[nitrogen]

I'd give the store the benifit of the doubt. Many of these places get a whole packet of signage and they just put up whatever they get wthout even realizing what the signs mean.

I was at a walmart in the middle of nowhere in Texas that had a 51% sign up. I spoke to the manager on duty who made a phone call and took it down in front of me.

[Zero_G]

What's the connection between 51% and smoking/nonsmoking? There's quite a few eating establishments in the Clear Lake area that are not 51% and have smoking sections...

Keith

[Rokyudai]

What's the connection between 51% and smoking/nonsmoking? There's quite a few eating establishments in the Clear Lake area that are not 51% and have smoking sections...

Keith

Perhaps two different issues that I have mistakingly merged...sorry for the confusion.


The pub is arranged like a 'shotgun cabin' with the 2 bars on one side and the seating on the opposite side...based on the layout, not likely to be able to offer a 'No Smoking' section per say. I'm not too sure either, but, that's all I could think happened to impose a smoking ban.

[Rokyudai]

Now I finally find the post from Feb 13th which had my answers about the color codes on the liquor license in the first place.... sorry...

[srothstein]

Part of the answer might also be in who told them to post 51 signs. Some cities have ordinances about smoking that ban it in restaurants but allow it in bars. Clearly, a 51% premise is not a restaurant.

If it came from something along those lines, it was probably the city code enforcement officers that mentioned the 51 signs. What they sya is not governing, just TABC's decision. TABC does try to work with local officers and regulations but would not get involved in a smoking question of that type.

[Rokyudai]

Wow Steve...3am??? Burning the midnight oil as they say!

I think it's pretty interesting. This pub for the most part has been serving alcohol and moderate pub style fare with red 51%s hanging there since opening day. That was almost 3yrs ago. Now, what is being said (from the audit) is that they derive more income from food sales than alcohol sales. So, the one-time appropriate sign may now be incorrectly posted? I will check on Monday and look at that license.

Thanks,
Rok

[boomerang]

We need to fix the silly law so CHLs have the same restrictions as LEOs who aren't in the official discharge of their duties.