Store Hold Up

[dihappy]

Nice rifle :)

When i first saw this i thought that the BG didnt want to point his weapon at anyone cuz of his non chalant demeanor, but then he put his weapon on that guy and i was like, "woah!"



So what do you guys think? Plenty of time to shoot and a BIG mistake not to if that guy was a CHL/CCW holder.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42c_1205968489

[Lodge2004]

The clerk and customer did not see him until he was at the counter with his rifle pointed at the clerk. It's interesting to see the reaction of the customer. He walks up and looks at the rifle and then backs off and becomes very compliant/non-confrontational. It's almost like he was thinking...I can be invisible if I stand really still and look away...

Both clerk and customer were in condition white at the beginning. The customer quickly transitioned to condition ostrich. He was in an ideal position to take action, standing in the guys blindspot and being ignored for a few seconds. Once the BG decided to put him on the ground his options were severly limited. Notice how the BG uses his foot on the back to sense any movement. Doubt this was his first robbery.

[DoubleActionCHL]

It was California. The guy wasn't a CHL!

I agree, though. An armed and aware customer would have had a golden opportunity, except for the fact that this customer approached the register with both hands full. I'm always very cautious in convenience stores and never occupy my shooting hand.

[KD5NRH]

lol! Condition Ostrich. Although to be honest the customer couldn't have really taken action if he wanted to. The suspect had a rifle, and seemed to be a fairly large fellow. The customer didn't seem to have anything but his fists..

A rifle is a large lever. Control the muzzle and you control the gun. If the BG takes a hand off to punch or grapple, you'll have even more control of the gun. That's why you shouldn't get within hand-to-hand distance if you're using a long gun.

[WarHawk-AVG]

lol! Condition Ostrich. Although to be honest the customer couldn't have really taken action if he wanted to. The suspect had a rifle, and seemed to be a fairly large fellow. The customer didn't seem to have anything but his fists..

A rifle is a large lever. Control the muzzle and you control the gun. If the BG takes a hand off to punch or grapple, you'll have even more control of the gun. That's why you shouldn't get within hand-to-hand distance if you're using a long gun.

+1

Man that incident could have showed the murder of 2 people in the blink of an eye...he literally had ALL that time to kill both of them with no problems...that looked like a sawed of Ruger Mini-14 as well (correction...its a paratrooper M1 Carbine, look at the small 15 round stick magazine)

And yes..snag hold of the barrel with your non shooting hand and you have control of the firearm

How the HECK would you handle that situation...draw, and center mass till the threat ended, then ask question without a verbal warning (after all if you warn him and he turns and you are outside the distance to grab that rifle he outguns you 10 fold!)...yikes!

[KD5NRH]

How the HECK would you handle that situation...draw, and center mass till the threat ended, then ask question without a verbal warning (after all if you warn him and he turns and you are outside the distance to grab that rifle he outguns you 10 fold!)...yikes!

Inside 10-12 feet, with the BG armed with a long gun and facing away, I'd be hard pressed to not go for the headshot; you have time to aim and check backstop, and you can't afford to have him fail to be incapacitated.

If he's close enough for a grab and there's no good backstop, I might try for the grab, but that's primarily for a situation where dropping him instantly isn't an option.

[Mike1951]

One thing is fairly certain. I wouldn't have walked right up on the guy, peering around, trying to see what was going on!

I hope I would have recognized the situation early enough to head the other direction.

[srothstein]

I am glad I am not the only one who thought about grabbing the rifle, even if unarmed. Having been taught that lesson in reverse, I know I could have taken action even if unarmed. I have to admit to preferring a draw and shoot while still behind the guy as my first choice. He let the customer move in and then back off and ignored him for plenty of time.

This also demonstrates the need to understand unarmed self defense and how to fight from the ground. When the BG had his foot on the customer's back, he was in about the most unstable position he could have been in. The customer could easily have knocked him to the ground and the clerk could just as easily have grabbed the rifle and pulled or pushed him into falling.

But talk about condition white! How did he walk into the store wearing that jacket without making anyone suspicious? It completely covered the rifle. No one else was wearing a jacket or winter clothing, so I am guessing it should have been a big hint.