clarification

[smyrna]

Suppose a business with dedicated parking (only supposed to be used by employees or visitors) has a proper 30.06 sign posted at the parking lot entrance. At what point or areas is the 30.06 enforceable?

According to what I read in the Texas CHL book, it clearly says "property" and not "premises" as in defined for schools. So, I assume that in this case 30.06 is enforceable on the parking lot meaning the CHL holder can not just simply disarm and leave it locked in the car. Is this a correct interpretation?

[seamusTX]

Yes. The entire property, outdoors and indoors, can be posted.

- Jim

[smyrna]

Yes. The entire property, outdoors and indoors, can be posted.

- Jim

Thanks for the quick reply Jim.

Let's delve a little deeper for the sake of discussion and of course education on my part...

Suppose a business properly posts a 30.06 on the front door to its building (and all entrances to the building for that matter), is the 30.06 enforceable on the parking lot? Or, is this a uniquely different case from posting a valid 30.06 at the entrance to the property? How is the CHL holder suppose to distiguish where a property, as far as the 30.06 notice, begins or ends?

For example, occasionaly someone will mention a bank being 30.06 and others will reply to just use the drive through. Well, if an enitre property can be posted, suppose a bank posted at the drive entrance, then by the above logic, the drive through would then become off limits as well, or not?

I realize I'm playing devil's advocate, but I've only had my CHL for about a year and most 30.06 that I have seen have been posted on the front doors of a building or just inside the building and NOT the parking lot.

[Crossfire]

Just to clarify 30.06... this only applies to carrying a handgun on or about your person, as defined in Subchapter H, Chapter 411

It does NOT mean you cannot leave a firearm locked in your vehicle. So, even if a parking lot is posted, you are not prevented from leaving the handgun in your car.

As long as it is not accessible to you, it is not "on or about your person".

[smyrna]

Just to clarify 30.06... this only applies to carrying a handgun on or about your person, as defined in Subchapter H, Chapter 411

It does NOT mean you cannot leave a firearm locked in your vehicle. So, even if a parking lot is posted, you are not prevented from leaving the handgun in your car.

As long as it is not accessible to you, it is not "on or about your person".

O.K. That's the clarification I was looking for. Been there, done that, and I started second guessing myself when I encountered a posted parking lot.

Thanks lwatson. You guys never cease to amaze me with a wealth of knowledge!

[Liberty]

Just to clarify 30.06... this only applies to carrying a handgun on or about your person, as defined in Subchapter H, Chapter 411

It does NOT mean you cannot leave a firearm locked in your vehicle. So, even if a parking lot is posted, you are not prevented from leaving the handgun in your car.

As long as it is not accessible to you, it is not "on or about your person".

O.K. That's the clarification I was looking for. Been there, done that, and I started second guessing myself when I encountered a posted parking lot.

Thanks lwatson. You guys never cease to amaze me with a wealth of knowledge!

I believe it applys only to CHL holders. Those who don't have CHLs are not restricted by the 30.06 sign

[stevie_d_64]

Just to clarify 30.06... this only applies to carrying a handgun on or about your person, as defined in Subchapter H, Chapter 411

It does NOT mean you cannot leave a firearm locked in your vehicle. So, even if a parking lot is posted, you are not prevented from leaving the handgun in your car.

As long as it is not accessible to you, it is not "on or about your person".

O.K. That's the clarification I was looking for. Been there, done that, and I started second guessing myself when I encountered a posted parking lot.

Thanks lwatson. You guys never cease to amaze me with a wealth of knowledge!

I believe it applys only to CHL holders. Those who don't have CHLs are not restricted by the 30.06 sign

Ironic, isn't it...

[jimlongley]

There is another point to ponder here: If you enter the posted property while carrying under your CHL, you are violating the law.

So you need to stop short of the parking lot somewhere and store your gun, then when you enter the lot, you are no longer carrying under your CHL, you are just transporting your gun.

[txmatt]

I really wouldn't want to have to find out the hard way, but if a parking lot is posted 30.06, doesn't that only prohibit carrying a concealed handgun under the authority of a CHL? So... if it never leaves your car couldn't one argue that you are carrying as allowed by 46.02? Seems wrong that only permit holders are banned from leaving their handguns in their car while people engaged in legal unliscensed car carry are not.

[apostate]

That's the best reason to have one of those inexpensive lockboxes. They may not do much to stop thieves but they're an extra layer of protection against unreasonable searches.

[seamusTX]

Suppose a business properly posts a 30.06 on the front door to its building (and all entrances to the building for that matter), is the 30.06 enforceable on the parking lot? Or, is this a uniquely different case from posting a valid 30.06 at the entrance to the property? How is the CHL holder suppose to distiguish where a property, as far as the 30.06 notice, begins or ends?

For example, occasionaly someone will mention a bank being 30.06 and others will reply to just use the drive through. Well, if an enitre property can be posted, suppose a bank posted at the drive entrance, then by the above logic, the drive through would then become off limits as well, or not?

In my personal opinion (IANAL, etc.), posting at the entrances of a building applies only to the building, not the grounds.

I have never seen a 30.06-posted parking lot, but I have heard rumors of them. Again IMHO, that would apply to the point where the sign was posted and beyond.

No private property owner can search your vehicle without your permission, and they must allow you to leave if you do not give permission.

The police need probable cause to search a vehicle,and they don't often have it on private property.

Just to clarify 30.06... this only applies to carrying a handgun on or about your person, as defined in Subchapter H, Chapter 411

It does NOT mean you cannot leave a firearm locked in your vehicle. So, even if a parking lot is posted, you are not prevented from leaving the handgun in your car.

As long as it is not accessible to you, it is not "on or about your person".

I respect your opinion, as you have more experience and training than I do.

I'm wondering, though, if the gate of a parking lot is posted, whether someone who enters with a handgun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is carying on or about his person at that point.

I agree with Jim Longley on this.

I really wouldn't want to have to find out the hard way, but if a parking lot is posted 30.06, doesn't that only prohibit carrying a concealed handgun under the authority of a CHL? So... if it never leaves your car couldn't one argue that you are carrying as allowed by 46.02? Seems wrong that only permit holders are banned from leaving their handguns in their car while people engaged in legal unliscensed car carry are not.

The lege made something of a mess with this.

For over a hundred years, the only legal way to have a handgun on or about your person in public was if you were traveling. In that case, any generic "no guns" sign or oral notification was valid.

Then came CHL, and later 30.06. It was still illegal for almost everyone else to have a handgun in public.

When they made it legal for nearly everyone to have a concealed handgun in their vehicle, they did not consider the gap between 30.05 and 30.06.

I don't want to be a test case on this issue. No one does.

- Jim

[smyrna]

There is another point to ponder here: If you enter the posted property while carrying under your CHL, you are violating the law.

So you need to stop short of the parking lot somewhere and store your gun, then when you enter the lot, you are no longer carrying under your CHL, you are just transporting your gun.

That is precisely what got me to thinking about this issue of a parking lot being posted. Suppose you're driving along with it on your person, turn into the parking lot with a line of cars behind you and no way to turn around, and BAM, you come face to face with the sign.

It would stink to be busted in that situation.

[srothstein]

I'm wondering, though, if the gate of a parking lot is posted, whether someone who enters with a handgun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is carrying on or about his person at that point.

Jim, the real answer to this is "it depends". Some parts of the passenger compartment are still considered to be "on or about your person" and some are not. If you are alone while driving in the car, the right rear corner of the floorboards might not be about your person, but the area under your seat would be. The center console and glove box, if unlocked, are considered to be about your person, but not if they are locked.

As a general guideline, if you could get it by reaching or lunging, it is considered on or about your person, but if you needed to use a key or move something fairly heavy (not a towel), then it would not be considered that way. Of course, with these vague guidelines, each officer and court can come up with different interpretations. So, taking the old advice of not being the test case, I suggest a lockbox in the car - or at least a locked glove box.

And, as TxMatt pointed out, the signs in parking lots may no longer have any real effect. They do only apply to CHL's and then only to people carrying under the authority of their CHL. I strongly suggest that you all remember that you are not carrying under the authority of your CHL when you are in your own car. You are not committing a crime and are carrying simply because it is not illegal. Under this logic, the sign would not apply to you in the parking lot or garage.

Again, this would involve being a test case to resolve, so either put it in the trunk before entering the property, or use a lockbox or locked glovebox.