Video of an armed encounter with a burglar (OH)

[Paladin]

Interesting video and 911 transcript of a business owner's encounter with a burglar.

I should say that the NRA PPIH class does a good job of teaching you how to handle this sort of situation.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/5621

Armed citizen dials 911 and waits

[Tactical_Texan_CHL]

New headline: "Armed Citizen Has it Right! Outcome Bungled by Dispatcher!" I can see the problem with the cell phone going to the wrong department, but don't most dispatchers have multiple lines at their discression? Shouldn't she have started contacting county LE just a bit sooner? Her attitude and demeanor towards the citizen most definitely leave room for improvement!

[KD5NRH]

New headline: "Armed Citizen Has it Right! Outcome Bungled by Dispatcher!" I can see the problem with the cell phone going to the wrong department, but don't most dispatchers have multiple lines at their discression? Shouldn't she have started contacting county LE just a bit sooner? Her attitude and demeanor towards the citizen most definitely leave room for improvement!

Around here, as long as you give the address first, your call will be relayed or transferred immediately.

IMO, the dispatcher unnecessarily endangered everybody at the scene by distracting the caller with extraneous questions.

[DoubleJ]

I hope that dispatcher was given some addtional training. what a maroon!
That offender is just plain lucky he didn't get filled full of holes.

[jimlongley]

Why is it that some of these Darwin Award candidates choose to walk in to a deadly weapon - do they think they're Superman?

Years ago a young kid rang my doorbell at zero dark thirty and proceeded to descibe to me, in graphic terms, the plans he had for my teenage daughter. As he advanced into my house, my wife, standing out of view to the side handed me my shotgun, which I then pointed at his head. Even eye to eye with a 16ga he kept trying to advance, making threatening gestures, and further verbal threats.

Eventually I was able to convince him to kneel down and lace his fingers behind his head and we waited for the police that way. When the police arrived - no 911 in those days, we called the precinct direct - he got up and tried to leave, and then tried to have me arrested for Assault with a Deadly Weapon. The cops just laughed at him as they fitted him with his new set of silver bracelets.

[fm2]

WOW!

Maybe we need a class on how to talk to the dispatcher & handle situations such as this one??????????????????

[ghentry]

Do not be angry with me sir!

Ooh that really chapped me when she said that. He's in fear for his and the criminals life and she demands for him to be polite?

[dukalmighty]

I see so many bad things that could have happened here,never assume until you have searched and cleared a structure that everything seems to be ok.

[boomerang]

That 911 operator should work in dispatch handling felony stops and "officer needs assistance" calls for a while.

Maybe they would start to understand why guns get pointed at criminals.

[srothstein]

In Texas, the 911 systems are all connected. The dispatcher should have transferred the calla s soon as she got the address. I will grant her an extra 30 seconds to type it into her computer and start a record before finding out it was the county and not the city (not all dispatchers know every street and address in the city).

Other than that, she pretty much handled it as trained. Most dispatchers are trained to ask as many questions as they can to get the information the officers need. The questions about the permit were unnecessary, but clarifying it was a burglary was important. When he first called it in, he did not explicitly say there had been a burglary, just that he was at his business after hours and had a gun pointed at a guy. That could have been a disturbance like an argument with an employee.

As for the part about being polite and not angry, that is pretty much just an average person who is not under stress when the person on the other end of the line is under stress. They know the anger in his voice is not really directed at them, but do not fully know how to ignore it. Remember that the average dispatcher is not very well paid or trained. The real good ones get better jobs rather quickly. I would guess that salaries are in the $36000 range in most larger cities, and the lower to mid 20's in small towns. It takes a certain amount of dedication to be a dispatcher, and remain one, especially as a good one. It is kind of like any other service type calling that way.

The point I do not understand is why the bad guy was able to walk away. I know why they will disobey someone pointing a gun at them. It is because they know the person is not really ready to use it. In this case, the business owner proved he was unwilling to pull the trigger, and a pistol you won't use is pretty much a paperweight. (Freebie and the Bean flashback for us older movie buffs.)

If you are pointing a firearm at a person and he keeps coming at you, are you justified in shooting at that point? Now, consider if you would be justified in shooting if you were not justified in shooting (but force was justified so the draw was legal) when you drew the pistol? I am not sure a jury would agree with me, but if I am pointing a loaded firearm at someone and he still charges at me, he must be planning on using deadly force against me. I will pull the trigger as necessary.

[Tajovo]

WOW!

Maybe we need a class on how to talk to the dispatcher & handle situations such as this one??????????????????

No need for a class on how to talk to a dispatcher. I've been on both ends of that before and in every training class I've taken thus far I've had the opportunity to listen to many of the "don't dispatch like this" calls. I'd say this one qualifies as such.

Remember that the average dispatcher is not very well paid or trained. The real good ones get better jobs rather quickly.

Trying to get communications training at a police department is like trying to pick the winning lotto numbers, unless you are blessed with brass that cares about training communications staff. In my case when a certain certification class had opened in the area and my supervisor asked the Chief for approval to send me to the course he asked her "well, can't he just do it online?" It was a week long course that mostly covered call taking/dispatching procedures. In the end I was sent to the class. But it bothers me that he ever asked that question in the first place. If the money is there and the staff needs the training then send them. Or let your dispatcher answer telephone calls like the one above.

Great video Paladin, thanks for posting it.

[Stupid]

you guys assume all 911 calls are for emergency. If so, you are in for a big surprise. most of the 911 calls are .... crap such as my sink is leaking, my cat cannot get off the tree.

Since we all playing with 20/20 hindsight, a lesson I have learned is that we must communicate our emergency properly.

I would say, if my mind still were clear, "Intruder in my place. held at gun point. I think he's trying to kill me. I need help NOW! my address is..." After I have the operator repeat it, just hang up the phone and ignore the call backs and focus on the intruder.

I personally don't see the need to have 911 on the phone after I give them the information.

[Liberty]

you guys assume all 911 calls are for emergency. If so, you are in for a big surprise. most of the 911 calls are .... crap such as my sink is leaking, my cat cannot get off the tree.

Since we all playing with 20/20 hindsight, a lesson I have learned is that we must communicate our emergency properly.

I would say, if my mind still were clear, "Intruder in my place. held at gun point. I think he's trying to kill me. I need help NOW! my address is..." After I have the operator repeat it, just hang up the phone and ignore the call backs and focus on the intruder.

I personally don't see the need to have 911 on the phone after I give them the information.

About a year ago I witnessed a bad accident on I10 in Mississippi The 911 operator passed me off to the ambulance crew. and kept me on line until they arrived. Looking back I should have hung up, I had no more information for any one, and could have been more help to the victim.

Lesson learned: It is OK to Hang up on the 911 operator. It is not a time to worry about being polite.

[Lodge2004]

Lesson learned: It is OK to Hang up on the 911 operator. It is not a time to worry about being polite.

Why not just leave the line active but put down the phone? I'd rather have the incident recorded, primarily because there is going to be a lot of yelling being done by me (STOP...PUT IT DOWN...GO AWAY...STOP) and I want it all on tape if possible.

[casingpoint]

The Bell Curve is apparently alive and well in Columbus, Ohio.