Minimum Practice

[pfgrone]

Given the increasing cost of driving two towns away to get to a range, the increasing cost of range time and ammo for my wife and I, we have to cut back significantly on practice time at the range. We used to go about three times a month and are both good shots already. We both carry concealed and need to maintain some level of profiency.

Your opinions?
1) What would you consider minimum practice time on a range to maintain profiency?
2) Could one of those airsoft handguns and targets set up in my garage be a reasonable substitute for some of the range time? (Don't know anything about airsoft guns.)

[The Annoyed Man]

1) What would you consider minimum practice time on a range to maintain profiency?
2) Could one of those airsoft handguns and targets set up in my garage be a reasonable substitute for some of the range time? (Don't know anything about airsoft guns.)

1) I don't know what others would call 'minimum,' but I've always tried to get to the range every 2-3 weeks since I got my CHL. That was before I joined the DPC. Now that I don't have to pay range fees every time I go, I can afford the additional ammunition for additional practices. I went twice just this past weekend.

2) Airsoft guns don't have the sensation of recoil, although some of them are very realistic. My son has an MP5 airsoft gun that is indistinguishable from the real thing more than a couple of feet away, and all the controls are realistic. I think that it's an open question whether or not something like that would be a valuable training tool for someone who had to use a real MP5 on the job. I can't really speak to airsoft pistols.

The one thing that I have not done yet, and probably need to do, is to take some kind of practical self-defense pistol course which involves actual tactical shooting practice and theory.

[HerbM]

Given the increasing cost of driving two towns away to get to a range, the increasing cost of range time and ammo for my wife and I, we have to cut back significantly on practice time at the range. We used to go about three times a month and are both good shots already. We both carry concealed and need to maintain some level of profiency.

Your opinions?
1) What would you consider minimum practice time on a range to maintain profiency?
2) Could one of those airsoft handguns and targets set up in my garage be a reasonable substitute for some of the range time? (Don't know anything about airsoft guns.)

Depends on too many things to give a simple answer. How proficient you already are for one. How you practice when you do practice for another. Ultimately the only answer will be: Do you manage to avoid all incidents where you might have needed the gun (one of the best tests but it takes decades ) and if you have to use it will you do some safely, in a timely AND legal manner, and will you win.

Remember, that pure "range shooting" may not be the best practice for self-defense anyway -- if you are already competent with basic shooting. Do you practice defending yourself and your spouse, with your spouse?

You need some practical training, or IDPA competition to get out of the "shooting in the lane" mode of most ranges. Take some training. Try to find some "partner" training where you will get to work together, but take SOME training no matter what. Then you will know more about what to practice and know better HOW to practice.

Other (cheaper) methods include reduced caliber (or more common, cheaper rounds), e.g, .22, but also Airsoft, dryfire, and laser practice. Reduced caliber won't help you much if the issue is reaching the range for live fire. Airsoft might work. Dryfire and laser (dryfire) work for everyone. Personally I do a lot of dry fire with a laser, and a lot of scenario practice.

Just drawing from cover is something most people don't practice -- many ranges won't let you draw anyway. People go to the range and practice holding the gun at low ready, or even on target. Some practice shooting quickly, but few practice fully and completely from cover unless they are IDPA/USPSA/practical competitors. (Practical competitions aren't combat but they are about as close as we can get most of the time -- that and Force on Force classes.)

But remember, your ultimately healthy survival will likely depend as much or more on you AVOIDING the threat, PERCEIVING the threat in time to react, and REACTING to the threat before you become unable to do so.

Most defensive encounters are going to be at very close ranges -- 7 yards is usually suggestion, but the overwhelming majority of shots fired by you will probably be at under 7'.

Just ask yourself, when would I be shooting THAT far? Or that far? Pick different distances and think what the scenario would be for you to shoot at each rangers.

If you have taken any defensive training (or maybe just the CHL class if you had a good instructor) then know about the Tueller Drill which establishes that a knife wielder can close from 7 yards (21') before most people can draw and fire. But this is different if the gun is in your hand.

Would a knife attacker be standing at 7 yards just asking you to throw over your wallet? How about a criminal with a gun?

In most real world defenses, stance and shooting position is going to be pretty arbitrary because you are going to be MOVING to get out of the way of either the knife or gun attack. Expect to be moving sideways (you do train to move, right?) and expect to need to fire one handed, maybe while not being ABLE to aim.

Note, this is not an argument FOR unaimed fire, but rather an acknowledgement of the fact that most real world fights happen this way.

How about sleight of hand and deceptive draw strokes? The fast draw is a skill to have, but if you are facing a criminal with a gun (or maybe knife) already deployed, can you "outdraw him"? Of course not. Are you going to go along on a kidnapping? How about being raped? How will you get your gun into play? Deceptions, pattern and sleight of hand skills, MIGHT be part of the answer.

The most likely place to have a long range encounter where you will actually shoot is at home, down a long hallway etc. Measure it off, work out a system for those place what will be successful. Maybe a shotgun is called for.

Practice SOMETHING every day. Even if it is only "looking for the threat" everywhere you go. (Do this anywhere.)

Try this at Wal-Mart or the grocery store: Spot the CHL holders.

That simply. It will likely cause you to find the bad guys too.

How many people with a CHL ever spot the OTHER CHL holders?

You know they are out there. Where are they?

The criminals are too....so where are they?


Ultimately you practice as much as you must or as much as you can. Will it be enough do you think?

[TDDude]

It depends where you are now.

I'm in the same boat financially. High gas, Hi groceries, mucho small children at home. there's just a lot competing for that mangy dollar that I collect.

Fortunately, I shot thousands of rounds per month a few years ago with my carry gun. I did some IDPA stuff (man, what a blast) and went every chance I could. I still have all that muscle memory ingraned.

I'm at the range every 6 weeks or so and I haven't really noticed any major degradation in my shooting skills. I have the same problems now that I had then and have to concentrate on overcoming my same quirks.

You can get snap caps and practice your draw at home. Drawing & firing at a door knob with a cap does just as good as if it were a target. A stress situation depends more on muscle memory than precision shooting anyway.

good luck.

[longhorn_92]

1) What would you consider minimum practice time on a range to maintain profiency?
2) Could one of those airsoft handguns and targets set up in my garage be a reasonable substitute for some of the range time? (Don't know anything about airsoft guns.)

1) I don't know what others would call 'minimum,' but I've always tried to get to the range every 2-3 weeks since I got my CHL. That was before I joined the DPC. Now that I don't have to pay range fees every time I go, I can afford the additional ammunition for additional practices. I went twice just this past weekend.

2) Airsoft guns don't have the sensation of recoil, although some of them are very realistic. My son has an MP5 airsoft gun that is indistinguishable from the real thing more than a couple of feet away, and all the controls are realistic. I think that it's an open question whether or not something like that would be a valuable training tool for someone who had to use a real MP5 on the job. I can't really speak to airsoft pistols.

The one thing that I have not done yet, and probably need to do, is to take some kind of practical self-defense pistol course which involves actual tactical shooting practice and theory.

This would be your best option. It is one thing to shoot at targets all the time - however, it's another thing to go through real world scenarios. I went through a class not too long ago and it opened my eyes. It was a wonderful experience.

[DoubleJ]

Go shoot IDPA once a month. you're already a good stand still and aim shooter, this'll make you a better move, dodge, reload shooter.
and it doesn't cost any more than the price of a usual range trip.

[mr.72]

how about wax bullets you load yourself into used brass with new primers, as an alternative to airsoft guns for home practice?

I have been considering this myself, even though the range I go to is free for me to use, it still is about a 30 minute drive and hard to schedule that time. There are many more times when I have a free 30-60 minutes by myself at the house and could sneak in some practice.

I think one advantage to wax bullets in your carry gun is you could practice drawing and firing the actual gun you are carrying. Sure there will not be any recoil but it has to be better than an airsoft gun.

The one thing I have been trying [in vain] to investigate is whether it is legal for me to shoot wax bullets in my yard. I kind of suspect it is not legal, that once the neighbors hear the popping they will call the cops who will find me back in the back yard with a real loaded gun shooting willy nilly.

[BigDan]

I'm curious to know if that would be CONSIDERED illegal. Yes, you are shooting a gun, but you're not technically discharging a firearm, given the fact that there's no gunpowder, hence no "typical" endangerment by discharging. Anyone know what the law says about discharging?

[HerbM]

I'm curious to know if that would be CONSIDERED illegal. Yes, you are shooting a gun, but you're not technically discharging a firearm, given the fact that there's no gunpowder, hence no "typical" endangerment by discharging. Anyone know what the law says about discharging?

I was pretty sure he intended to load power, primary, and wax bullets and they will consider this discharging a firearm for the sound if nothing else.

If he means duds, then snap caps or just empty will work fine. He can do that in his yard all he wants as long as he is careful not to harm anyone or to convince his neighbors he is committing an assault. (And I prefer the neighbors not even see this. )

[BigDan]

Yeah, the less the neighbors know, the better. Get some good dummy rounds and practice dry firing techniques every weekend. Practice clearing drills. Practice drawing. Get in your backyard when it gets dark and go through the motions of going from one side of your yard to another to practice moving (grab your tv remote as a poor substitute). Practice with your spouse to clear your home. Enter from the front door and clear it while they wait outside and get into a safe position where she would call 911. Do a night scenario where you hear something in your house (window breaking or even door breaking down) and practice your response. If she's out of town or something, set an alarm for a time you wouldn't ordinarily be awake (or even stay awake for) and do a house-clearing drill. Do it with your handgun and your shotgun or rifle (both?).

It's all about preparedness up-front so you're not caught unawares as easily if/when the time comes.

[fm2]

Proficiency in what is a good question to ask yourself ie...marksmanship, defensive tactics,reloads?


I would suggest shooting 50 rounds at least once every three months. That's a bare minimum to have any kind of proficiency.
Dry firing is an excellent training aid.

I highly recommend the dry fire kit sold here:
http://www.firearms-safety.info/


Here is another link to a very good dry fire kit:
http://www.andersonshooting.com/index.html

[mr.72]

for wax bullets, I was considering loading just primers & wax. no powder.

They tell me it's about as loud as a "cap gun". Can you even buy a cap gun anymore?

[HerbM]

I would suggest shooting 50 rounds at least once every three months. That's a bare minimum to have any kind of proficiency.
Dry firing is an excellent training aid.

I highly recommend the dry fire kit sold here:
http://www.firearms-safety.info/

I would very much like to hear more of your experience and practice with this kit -- here in this thread or in a new one if you prefer.

Anything would be appreciated, from a sentence or two, to an full review....

Thanks

[HerbM]

for wax bullets, I was considering loading just primers & wax. no powder.

They tell me it's about as loud as a "cap gun". Can you even buy a cap gun anymore?

Apparently you can -- for now: http://www.toyarsenal.com/?gclid=CPCiys ... sgodcms1fw

You might get away with it -- probably for a while. Airsoft is probably a better solution.

[Liberty]

I've done the wax thing, years ago.. The wax will coat the barrel and needs to be cleaned thoroughly afterwards