Question for those who carry 1911's/variants single action?

[The Annoyed Man]

But wouldn't carrying an XD be like carrying a revolver with a double action first pull?

The XD is technically a single action pistol. The striker is fully cocked by the recoil action of the slide, and the trigger and sear simply release it.

So I'm curious, because I've been considering an XDm for my wife...

1. Is the XD(m) intended to be carried safety on?

2. Can it be "decocked" and carried with a DA first shot, or is it always SA?

[longhorn_92]

But wouldn't carrying an XD be like carrying a revolver with a double action first pull?

The XD is technically a single action pistol. The striker is fully cocked by the recoil action of the slide, and the trigger and sear simply release it.

So I'm curious, because I've been considering an XDm for my wife...

1. Is the XD(m) intended to be carried safety on?

2. Can it be "decocked" and carried with a DA first shot, or is it always SA?

I am all ears on this one. I would like to hear opinions on the XDm as well....

[Excaliber]

1. Is the XD(m) intended to be carried safety on?

2. Can it be "decocked" and carried with a DA first shot, or is it always SA?

It is available with or without a manual thumb safety, and it can be safely carried with the manual safety either on or off. If you plan to carry it with the manual safety off, it would make sense to get the version without the manual safety so you don't accidentally find it on when you least expect it. There may be some advantage to this device if you always carry with the safety on and the weapon is taken away from you by an assailant - he may not be able to figure out how to use it. That's more of an issue in law enforcement situations. I prefer to address it by focusing on weapon retention whether than how to confuse someone after he's taken the gun away.

The grip safety is always on except when depressed by the hand holding the weapon in a shooting grip. When you release the grip, this safety reengages.

If the slide has been racked, the weapon is cocked - period. There is no "decocker," nor is one needed. The trigger pull is always the same - very smooth single action for every shot.

Don't get overly excited over the concept of the single action mechanism. It's almost exactly like the Glock, which uses recoil to partially cock the striker. The trigger cocks it the rest of the way. Glocks don't have manual or grip safeties, and they're the most issued weapons for very safety conscious police departments in the country. The difference is mainly in the smoothness of the trigger pull, with the XD winning in that area.

It is also a very fine "wife gun." My wife shoots them very well in .45 and 9mm.

The XD is a very well designed, very safe weapon for anyone who strictly adheres to all 4 rules of gun safety. Anyone who doesn't should keep their hands off firearms.

My advice is go to a range that rents the XD and try it, the Glock, and the S&W M&P series pistols. That will give you a much better start on finding out what you'll be comfortable with.

[The Annoyed Man]

If the slide has been racked, the weapon is cocked - period. There is no "decocker," nor is one needed. The trigger pull is always the same - very smooth single action for every shot.

Don't get overly excited over the concept of the single action mechanism. It's almost exactly like the Glock, which uses recoil to partially cock the striker. The trigger cocks it the rest of the way. Glocks don't have manual or grip safeties, and they're the most issued weapons for very safety conscious police departments in the country. The difference is mainly in the smoothness of the trigger pull, with the XD winning in that area.

So when you first rack the slide, is now partially cocked, or fully cocked? We'll try renting one, but this definitely sounds like a good alternative.

[jimlongley]

It's almost exactly like the Glock, which uses recoil to partially cock the striker. The trigger cocks it the rest of the way. Glocks don't have manual or grip safeties, and they're the most issued weapons for very safety conscious police departments in the country. The difference is mainly in the smoothness of the trigger pull, with the XD winning in that area.

While I agree with the recommendation to try one, that's what sold me on buying one, the actions of the Glock and the XD are not nearly "almost exactly" alike. The XD is strictly single action, the only parts to move when activating the fire control system are the trigger and sear (and a couple of related parts), not the striker. It may appear to someone touching the protruding end of the striker during the firing sequence (not recommended with a loaded gun) that the striker moves back, but it's primarily an illusion. In the Glock the striker is at a nominal half cocked position after slide function and the trigger actually finishes the cocking process, not fully double action, but not truly singe action either, thus Glock's "safe action" moniker.

[Excaliber]

So when you first rack the slide, is now partially cocked, or fully cocked?

With the XD, the striker is fully cocked by the recoiling slide. That's what makes it "single action" (the trigger / sear just releases the striker) instead of "double action" (the trigger cocks the striker or hammer and releases the sear) or "Glock safe action" where the striker is partially cocked by the recoiling slide and the trigger does the rest of the cocking function and finally releases the striker.

These systems all get the job done well and safely, but they produce trigger pulls of differing weight, length, and quality. It's best to try them yourself to see what works for you.

[htxred]

i wouldnt feel safe carrying any other way. carrying without a round in the chamber IMO is giving the bad guy a chance to win the fight. i dont know bout you, but i want to take away every chance from the bg winning possible.

[Skiprr]

With the XD, the striker is fully cocked by the recoiling slide. That's what makes it "single action" (the trigger / sear just releases the striker) instead of "double action" (the trigger cocks the striker or hammer and releases the sear) or "Glock safe action" where the striker is partially cocked by the recoiling slide and the trigger does the rest of the cocking function and finally releases the striker.

Yeppers. Ergo the fact that XD shooters lost the argument with the IDPA about its classification. You can buy a stock Glock 34 or 35--with a 5" barrel, a 4.5 lb. trigger pull, and an extended mag release--and shoot it in the Stock Service Pistol division. Any XD, by contrast, must shoot in the Enhanced Service Pistol division. And it's precisely because of the distinction Excaliber describes.

Something I'll note about the XDs I like is that, once the striker is down in dry fire, the trigger will actuate through its full range of motion. No trigger break or reset, of course, unless you cock the striker again; but if you want to practice basic trigger control on multiple "targets" in dry-fire practice, the XD lets you complete a full-range trigger pull and simulate the follow-through. Actually, I could argue that practicing trigger control in that manner--without a trigger break--can be a valuable addition to your training. You really can practice the "surprise break" if the trigger never actually breaks.

To get myself back on Topic, I'll note that the only modern firearms I would NOT carry with one in the chamber are SAO revolvers and any long gun not having a mil-spec, drop-tested safety, including shotguns and hunting rifles.

My normal carry is a 1911. It's cocked-and-locked. I have Browning-style autoloaders, DAO pistols, DA/SA pistols, auto-decockers like Glocks and XDs, and one (sadly; I need more) DA revolver. Any time they're in carry or ready mode, a round is resting in the chamber. That's what it's made for.

Somewhere upstream I believe there was mention of carrying shotguns with one in the chamber. I don't think that's a good idea. Most shotguns--even those intended for military and police duty--have, at best, a simple trigger block for a "safety." That little button near the trigger guard doesn't buy you much. A round in the chamber and a healthy bounce on a hard surface, that round can go off...simple trigger block or not. My shotguns stay charged, "safety" off, and ready to cycle one into the chamber.

It's pretty easy to see, visually, for even inexperienced shooters which modern rifles look "military" and which look like hunting riles. I find it ironic that the less-intimidating "hunting" or "sporting" rifles are the ones without drop-safe mechanisms. To think that the evil-looking rifles might actually be engineered to be safer than the perceived more-traditional hunting rifle! Go figure.

IMHO

[jimlongley]

One of the other reasons I like my Mossberg, the safety is hammer block, not trigger block.

[KBCraig]

Excellent post, Skiprr, but I must quibble:

To get myself back on Topic, I'll note that the only modern firearms I would NOT carry with one in the chamber are SAO revolvers ...

I disagree, because modern SA revolvers have either a transfer bar or hammer block that is only deactivated when the trigger is pulled.

The safety concerns about carrying a traditional Peacemaker-style SA revolver, which mandated carrying with the hammer down over an empty chamber, were twofold: dropping the gun on the hammer could transfer enough energy to the primer to make it fire; and, a hammer that was partially drawn back short of the half-cock notch and then released (brushing against something, etc.) could drop with enough force to fire.

I don't know enough to declare that there are no SA revolvers made today to the 1876 spec, but I do know that major manufacturers are too afraid of lawsuits to release any models that don't have a transfer bar or hammer block.