Brother-in Law The Felon

[Daltex1]

My Brother -in -Law (#3) called me and asked that he was thinking of getting a pistol for home defense. I told him that the only way I knew that he could legally own a firearm is to hire a lawyer and see if he could get his criminal record ex-sponged. He has turned his life around and is now a productive member of society one of the few that have actually stayed out of trouble since being released from prison over 10 years ago. I had seen a post maybe on this site or maybe another that someone that had a felony record had his wife buy the gun for home defense and was wondering if it is legal to have a firearm in the house if his wife buys the gun. Either way I think that this is a grey area and could most certainly get him into trouble. So my question is "can my sister(his wife) purchase a handgun for their home or is it illegal for him to even have a firearm in his home?" Thanx to all that reply And I hope that I have worded this so yall can understand the ?

[LedJedi]

ya, similar stuff has been discussed before... mainly with a buddy of mine in the last year or so...

Texas doesn't care about a felony after 5 years from release.

However, federally a felon is barred permanently from owning or otherwise possessing.

The problem with the wife doing it (or even you giving the wife a weapon) is that as soon as the wife leaves the weapon in any situation where the law would deem the husband has control or access to the weapon (laying out, outside of the wife's immediate reach) she is in danger of providing weapons to a known felon, which, I believe, is a felony.

He would have to get his felony either expunged or get a pardon. I think it's a pardon, but i'm not exactly sure on that.

you could google "how to get a felony pardon" and i'm sure find plenty of info.

[seamusTX]

If a convicted felon has access to a firearm, a legal doctrine called "constructive possession" comes into effect, and he can be headed to the graybar hotel: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... -laws.html

AFAIK, the only way out of this situation is a pardon. The President and governors do pardon a lot of people who have demonstrated that they have cleaned up their act. I suppose it costs a bit of money.

- Jim

[Kerbouchard]

It's not a gray area. It's a very black area. It is illegal for him to have access, purchase, possess, or even hold a firearm. If his wife purchases it for him they both commit a felony. If she wants it in the house, she would have to keep it locked up and it would be a felony for him to know the combination. If he ever had to use it, they would both go to jail.

If she wants it, the only way I would recommend would be for it to be in a biometric safe where she is the ONLY one keyed into it. That could prove that he did not have access to it, while she did.

He needs to go about it the right way. Hire an attorney. If he has truly cleaned up his life, it should not be that difficult for him(depending on what the charges were in the first place, of course)

[couzin]

So my question is "can my sister(his wife) purchase a handgun for their home or is it illegal for him to even have a firearm in his home?"

Here is my understanding on the expungement - although someone will surely correct me. If the conviction was a Texas state felony charge as an adult, you cannot expunge your felony conviction. Texas only allows expungement of arrests that did not lead to a conviction, class C misdemeanors, and deferred adjudications. You can however apply for a pardon from the governor of Texas. If it was a felony conviction in Federal courts, it cannot be expunged.

The answer on the gun is pretty straightforward. If the wife buys him the gun or allows him access - she could get a Federal charge for the straw purchase or making a gun available to a felon. If he just somehow 'finds' a gun or buys one in a private sale - he is a felon in possession of a gun and will face real Federal time if caught. If the gun is to be where he can't possible get at it - that is a question that probably needs to be addressed by a parole/probabtion officer or a judge. I don't think that will fly though.

The guy needs to face it - he has pretty much messed up. It is going to take a lot to fix the mistake.

[Daltex1]

I will pass the word, he wants to do this the legal way and trying to get a pardon or ex-sponged whichever it maybe will be the route he will have to take.Thanx again for everyones responses.

[Crossfire]

I will pass the word, he wants to do this the legal way and trying to get a pardon or ex-sponged whichever it maybe will be the route he will have to take.Thanx again for everyones responses.

If you get "ex-sponged", does that mean you get divorced from your worthless spouse that wouldn't get a job?

(I'm sorry. Couldn't help myself.)

[Liberty]

Black powder guns may be a workable solution.

[LedJedi]

Black powder guns may be a workable solution.

oh yeah, i forgot about that. That's the work-around. Black powder guns aren't considered firearms and a felon can own those. Have him just get a black powder revolver and he's good to go.

[longtooth]

Black powder is definately his best bet. I said several months ago if the grabbers get their AWB passed & semi autos are outlawed we will need to go to revolvers to stay legal. If 20yrs from now the get "revolvers" outlawed as "Assault Pistols" we will need to go to black powder to stay legal.

[LedJedi]

I just had a conversation with my buddy (the reformed felon) and decided to help him out since he's so busy these days with his new business. I researched a bit on getting a pardon. There's an application (linked below) that you have to fill out and it looks like some additional paperwork you may have to get regarding your conviction and discharge.

The Form in question is the Full Pardon form on this page:
http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/forms/forms.html

Though in looking through it I noted that at the end of the form that a pardon does not automatically restore the right to bear arms (they talk about that specifically). If you want that right restored you must ask for it on the application or otherwise prove an extenuating circumstance that would necessitate the need for that right to be restored (I would think the need would be implied...).

These are direct quotes from the application:

A FULL PARDON DOES NOT NECESSARILY RESTORE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. Many felons also lose their right to bear arms with the federal government. Additionally, you may or may not qualify for a State of Texas license to carry a concealed handgun. You MUST check with BOTH the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms AND the Texas Department of Public Safety for your status BEFORE bearing any arms.

The Board will consider Full Pardon requests for the following cases:
(01) Individuals on parole/mandatory supervision/annual report must have been under supervision for at least one (1) year without any violations during the last twelve (12) months.
(02) Former TDC or TDCJ-CID inmates who have discharged their sentences.
(03) Probated sentences (completed, unless unusual circumstances).
(04) Suspended sentences (completed).
(05) Jail sentences (completed).
(06) Misdemeanor sentences (completed).

The Board will NOT consider Full Pardon requests for the following cases
(01) Treason or impeachment.
(02) Arrest with no conviction (whether in the state of Texas or another state).
(03) Deferred adjudication community supervision (whether currently serving, or satisfactorily completed or discharged).
(04) Early dismissal from community supervision in cases defined by the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Art. 42.12, Sec. 20.
(05) Class C misdemeanor (except for domestic violence convictions where one seeks to remedy federal disabilities, pursuant to the “Lautenberg Amendment� to the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 [18 U. S. C., Section 922(G)(9)], which prohibits firearm possession for anyone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence).
(06) Texas Department of Criminal Justice-Institutional Division inmates (except when exceptional circumstances exist).
(07) Prior out-of-state felony convictions (must first clear priors by pardon from other jurisdiction).
(08) Prior federal convictions (must first clear by Presidential Pardon).
(09) Applicants who were denied Full Pardon and Restoration of Civil Rights less than one year ago.

§143.12. Restoration of Firearm Rights The board will consider recommending restoration of the right to receive, possess, bear, and transport in commerce a firearm only in extreme and unusual circumstances which prevent the applicant from gaining a livelihood, and only if the applicant: (1) provides either proof of clearance by a previously granted full pardon or a request for such express restoration in a pending application for a full pardon from jurisdiction(s) of the relevant conviction(s); and (2) provides proof of application under the United States Code, Title 18, §925(c), for exemption, relief from disabilities to the secretary of the treasury, and furnishes copies of all relevant applications and responses thereto by the secretary including any final actions by said secretary.

It does appear it's possible to get the 2nd amendment right restored, but it's not automatic.
The good news is it doesn't look like it takes an attorney to do this for you and may not be all that expensive overall.

[Daltex1]

Thay is great!Thanks for the link

[srothstein]

While I agree the black powder gun is the easiest way around the restriction, I have to point out that there is no need for an expungement or a pardon. All that is required is an application to the AG for relief from the disabilities. When he denies it (which he will due to a lack of funding for the program by Congress), the felon can apply to the US District Court for relief from disabilities.

Check 18 USC 925(c) at this link:federal law

[ELB]

It does appear it's possible to get the 2nd amendment right restored, but it's not automatic.
The good news is it doesn't look like it takes an attorney to do this for you and may not be all that expensive overall.

Call me cynical, but I greatly doubt that getting a pardon or a relief from disability is something that can happen without an attorney being involved. I have a feeling that the phrasing of the justifications and any supporting material is probably very important, and not something one is likely to get right without some experience in the area. I think it is a long shot to start with, so I would recommend your brother-in-law take some time to research attorneys who have actually worked pardons and such, and at least do an initial consultation with one to see what the attorney thinks.

Truly reformed felons seem to be few and far between, if your B-in-law is truly one of them, I wish him the best.

[LedJedi]

Truly reformed felons seem to be few and far between, if your B-in-law is truly one of them, I wish him the best.

I don't know about that. There are a lot of folks out there that did something stupid as a kid and got scared straight shortly thereafter and have been forever labeled as a felon, myself included.

Well, i didn't catch the label because I didn't actually do it and was more or less set up by a few other folks involved. I was a manager for a fast food restaurant when I was a kid. One of my store keys got bent so I put it in the manager's drawer with a note to be replaced. Someone got ahold of it and used it to rob the store. It looked AWEFULLY suspicious when a $6k deposit showed up missing from the safe a few days later and a manager key with my prints on it showed up jammed in door lock. Luckily the detective involved saw the situation for what it was and I never got charged.

My buddies situation was equally similar. Someone sold him a pistol when he was 18. One of his buddies in fact. He decided he didn't like it and nobody he knew was interested so he went to a pawn shop with it. The next thing he knows he's arrested for theft of a firearm because its hot. He told them he bought it and from whom, but he didn't have a bill of sale and that kid was the son of a local judge. He got popped with theft of a firearm, despite the fact that the day it was stolen he was with another friend of ours out of town. We just couldn't prove where he was.

I'm sure the majority of felons did what they're accused of, but I have no doubt there's a lot of folks who didn't. You may not have personal experience but I do and I'm sure others on this board do as well. My buddy now owns a very successful shop in alvin and some of his best customers are LEOs, but he will be forever barred from exorcising his 2nd amendment rights to defend his business and his family because of something stupid he did when he was a kid that I probably wouldn't have known any better at the time myself.

What's worse is I can't sell or even give this guy one of mine for protection of his shop or family (his shop has a LOT of cash on hand and a lot of high street value merchandise). His wife can't even get a gun without running the risk of even accidentally giving her husband access to it and committing a felony of her own.

You're right though. it probably won't be as easy as filling out an application and he may never get his rights back,