Carry into a daycare that is also a "preschool"?

[Fixintu]

Is it legal to carry (with CHL) into a private daycare facility that also teaches preschool and pre kindergarten if there is no 30.06 posted or Is this considered to be prohibited by:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;


Inquiring mind needs to know...............

[longtooth]

One of the things we would like fixed in the next session.

Man I like your screen name.

[Fixintu]

A bit confusing though. I know that during my CHL class we were told you could "go right up to the front door of the school, but not cross the threshold". After rereading the TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS statement above regarding the "physical premises" it would seem to me that you really cannot carry in the parking lot either since they are considered the private property of the institution. Or am I misinterpreting this? Does "premises" encompass the grounds and parking lots of the school or hospital, etc.?

Fixintu get a headache

[Keith B]

The definition has been clarified for us that in Texas it means the physical building ONLY, not the parking lot or grounds UNLESS there is a school sponsored function taking place (band practice, football practice, etc.) There is still debate by some on schools where the parking lots are posted 30.06, but the test case has not come up yet.

You can use the forum's search feature on 'premise' to find tons of past discussions here on the topic.

[Fixintu]

The definition has been clarified for us that in Texas it means the physical building ONLY, not the parking lot or grounds UNLESS there is a school sponsored function taking place (band practice, football practice, etc.) There is still debate by some on schools where the parking lots are posted 30.06, but the test case has not come up yet.

You can use the forum's search feature on 'premise' to find tons of past discussions here on the topic.

Thanks Keith! I have one other question in this regard and DID do a search but really found no answer. Under Texas law what legally defines a "school or education institution" as it pertains to CHL carry?

[Keith B]

That's where the rub comes in. It is really not defined for our purposes. IANAL, but my personal guidelines have been that if it was funded by the Dept. of Education (aka Tax payers $$$), or licensed as a 'school or education facility' by the state, then it was off limits. Makes it tough to determine, eh??

The definition has been clarified for us that in Texas it means the physical building ONLY, not the parking lot or grounds UNLESS there is a school sponsored function taking place (band practice, football practice, etc.) There is still debate by some on schools where the parking lots are posted 30.06, but the test case has not come up yet.

You can use the forum's search feature on 'premise' to find tons of past discussions here on the topic.

Thanks Keith! I have one other question in this regard and DID do a search but really found no answer. Under Texas law what legally defines a "school or education institution" as it pertains to CHL carry?

[Fixintu]

That's for sure, hence my question! I wouldn't want to be the TEST CASE on this one either! Hopefully we can get clarification on this in the next session as I abhor gray areas in the law and life.

That's where the rub comes in. It is really not defined for our purposes. IANAL, but my personal guidelines have been that if it was funded by the Dept. of Education (aka Tax payers $$$), or licensed as a 'school or education facility' by the state, then it was off limits. Makes it tough to determine, eh??

The definition has been clarified for us that in Texas it means the physical building ONLY, not the parking lot or grounds UNLESS there is a school sponsored function taking place (band practice, football practice, etc.) There is still debate by some on schools where the parking lots are posted 30.06, but the test case has not come up yet.

You can use the forum's search feature on 'premise' to find tons of past discussions here on the topic.

Thanks Keith! I have one other question in this regard and DID do a search but really found no answer. Under Texas law what legally defines a "school or education institution" as it pertains to CHL carry?

[Mr.Scott]

A daycare is not a educational facility. Just because the name pre-school has school in it, does not make it a school. a School is k-12 or an accredited private school that teaches academics courses that lead up to earning a diploma.

I have 2 children that are in 2 different daycare facilities, and I walk right on in every day.

[WildBill]

A daycare is not a educational facility. Just because the name pre-school has school in it, does not make it a school. a School is k-12 or an accredited private school that teaches academics courses that lead up to earning a diploma.

I have 2 children that are in 2 different daycare facilities, and I walk right on in every day.

IANAL, but I agree. What about Bushi Ban Martial Arts School?

[particle]

Seems to me you can carry on school property, so long as a sporting event is not taking place. Did I read that wrong? This came up in my CHL class a couple of weeks ago, and I understood my instructor to say you can indeed carry on school property. The law you were quoting did not specifically relate to CHL holders.

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, § 2