Question for those in the know.

[longtooth]

One of the ploys of gun control in many other countries is to make illegal, civillian ownership of military arms in military or Law Enforcement calibers. Past or present. Mexico, our nearest enemy alli is one that does that.
That covers the vast majority of arms. Some that folks would not think of as military calibers, ie .380

Now the question for you guys that stay up on this.
I think I read somewhere that Mexico had the lowly .22 under this also. Can anyone verify this for me & tell me when it was a military calibre. Dont need court room quality documentation just the answer.

[srothstein]

The US Army uses .22LR for target practice and training. M16's even have had conversion kits for it. If someone wants to claim it, that is enough to make it a military caliber, even if I would disagree. It all depends on how their law defines military use.

[longtooth]

Thanks Steve. I knew the .223. Did not know the practice w/ .22.
Anyone remember any early history on the .22RF in military.

[seamusTX]

This article confirms my recollection that the .22 was developed for an early revolver in the 1850s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Short

Wikipedia is consistently good for articles about technical aspects of firearms.

- Jim

[Liberty]

One of the ploys of gun control in many other countries is to make illegal, civillian ownership of military arms in military or Law Enforcement calibers. Past or present. Mexico, our nearest enemy alli is one that does that.
That covers the vast majority of arms. Some that folks would not think of as military calibers, ie .380

Now the question for you guys that stay up on this.
I think I read somewhere that Mexico had the lowly .22 under this also. Can anyone verify this for me & tell me when it was a military calibre. Dont need court room quality documentation just the answer.

I don't have any supporting documentation but at least up until a few years ago the 22 was commonly used by hunters and plinkers in Mexico. I wouldn't advice any American to to be messing with any guns or ammo though unless they had all their paperwork in order.
Then again I always thought .38 and the .380 were legal and according to wiki it still is. While wiki isn't all that trustable of a source, I'm seeing a lot of FUD and disinformation about anything about concerning Mexico lately.

Generally, citizens are restricted by law to:

* pistolas (handguns) of .380 Auto or .38 Special revolvers or smaller in either case,
* escopetas (shotguns) of 12 gauge or smaller, with barrels longer than 25 inches, and
* rifles (rifles) bolt action and semi-auto.

Handguns in calibers bigger than those mentioned above are forbidden from private ownership.

Examples of firearms that are legal for citizens to own include .380 ACP pistols (such as the Glock 25); .38 Special revolvers, 12 gauge shotguns (no short-barreled shotguns are allowed) and rifles in any caliber up to .30 caliber.

Permits for the transportation and use of such non-military caliber firearms are issued for one year terms by SEDENA (Secretaría de la Defensa Nacional) and may be applied for up to 10 firearms, total, for each designated and planned use that is legally authorized. These uses may include hunting or shooting at a club or national competition. Permits are very easy to obtain, but may be only obtained by citizens belonging to a shooting club.

There is only one legally authorized retail outlet in Mexico City: UCAM (Unidad de Comercialización de Armamento y Municiones), run by the Army and able to sell firearms. It is owned by, and is part of, the government. Although there is no legal limit on how many firearms an individual can own, once any individual has purchased ten firearms from the only retail governmental outlet, he cannot get a permit to buy any more. However, private party sales are legal and are largely uncontrolled, and wealthy gun-collecting citizens thus can legally buy more firearms from other private owners.

Collector permits, somewhat analogous to the FFL Category 03 Curio & Relic permits issued in the United States, are easy to obtain from the Mexican Government and allow the ownership of a wide range of firearms, even including military firearms. For those holding collector permits, regular visits by the local military authority to inspect the storage location to make sure it has the necessary security measures to avoid the guns being stolen are a recurring fact of life.

CCW licenses are issued but are hard to obtain for anyone not wealthy and without political connections. In the event that an application is denied, the denial may theoretically be appealed at a District Court, but this never occurs in practice. Prior to 2002, CCW licenses could be obtained authorizing military caliber pistols. However, these CCW licenses were all cancelled, and re-issued to authorize only up to .380 ACP caliber pistolas.

9mm is a no-no. Most rifle rounds are prohibido.

[NcongruNt]

oh boy. seems we have become the target of forum spammers.

[flintknapper]

oh boy. seems we have become the target of forum spammers.

Yeah, just what I wanted to read this morning, a bunch of "Kung-Phooey".

[CompVest]

oh boy. seems we have become the target of forum spammers.

Mods are deleting spammer's posts

[The Annoyed Man]

One of the guys in my Bible study who does occasional mission trips to Mexico has been invited a couple of times to go hunting down there with a Mexican pastor he works with on those mission trips. He takes along a bolt rifle in .270. I don't know what hoops he has to jump through, if any, to do that, but he has never said he had any problems doing so.

We meet again tomorrow morning. I'll have to ask him when he gets here.

[flintknapper]

One of the guys in my Bible study who does occasional mission trips to Mexico has been invited a couple of times to go hunting down there with a Mexican pastor he works with on those mission trips. He takes along a bolt rifle in .270. I don't know what hoops he has to jump through, if any, to do that, but he has never said he had any problems doing so.

We meet again tomorrow morning. I'll have to ask him when he gets here.

IIRC, he can take two rifles per each gun permit. There is no ammo available for sale in Mexico...but he take up to 100 rounds per rifle.

Unless, you really love your rifle....I'd just use one that someone already has down there. It isn't worth the trouble to take your own.

Below are the basics:

Obtaining Hunting License and Gun Permits

1. Obtain a letter from you local police or sheriff's department, stating that you have no criminal record (police clearance letter).

2. When completing the Gun Permit Application, type or print. Make sure the serial numbers listed are correct.

3. Fill out the personal information questions, sign and date your contract.

4. Obtain proof of citizenship (valid passport or certified copy of your birth certificate or naturalization certificate)

5. Obtain 10 color passport size photos (1” x 1.5”).

6. Send the police clearance letter, gun permit application, all but one of the carbon copies of your contract.


Then depending upon where you go, the police and/military may need to have their "palms greased".

[G.A. Heath]

As for the 22 rim fire cartridge being issued in a military Mossberg actually made a number of .22 rim fire guns for the U.S. military as training, and I want to say as survival, rifles. Some of the Mossberg rifles even went to England during WWII as part of the Lend Lease program. I want to say that there was a US42, US44, and maybe a US45 model and variants on those models. I want to say I remember once seeing an "Air Force Survival rifle" that was a tube fed Mossberg .22 rim fire. The idea behind banning military calibers is that it covers just about everything that is common, popular, or available.

[killerfly128]

.22lr was used in a bunch of special ops pistols if i recall ... and i know Admiral Nimitz used a .22 for "stress relief"

[longtooth]

Thanks guys. These last few post have been great. The only way this came to the top again was due to the spammer.
I guess they are good for something.

Been shooting for 52 yrs now that I can remember what I shot & where.
Still learn a lot on this board.

Thanks for the good quality info & the documentation on it.
LT

[srothstein]

The last couple posts jarred my memory a little. Wasn't the AR-7 first designed and issued as an Air force survival rifle? it is also in .22LR.

[killerfly128]

The last couple posts jarred my memory a little. Wasn't the AR-7 first designed and issued as an Air force survival rifle? it is also in .22LR.

i think that was the ar-5 ... and it fired a .22 hornet if i recall so that wouldnt be a cause to outlaw .22lr