AR- Rifle or Pistol when lower is sold

[rm9792]

I bought a DPMS lower at GRB today and the seller asked if it was a rifle or pistol build. I asked him if it mattered what DPMS sold it as to him and he he stated no, it was what he filled out the 4473 as. I had him do it as pistol but is this correct? I saw some lowers at another vendor with "for pistol only".

[WarHawk-AVG]

Pistol only means you can't put a stock on it, so only the buffer tube sticks out on the back

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/sbr-aow-pistol.html

[KaiserB]

I bought a DPMS lower at GRB today and the seller asked if it was a rifle or pistol build. I asked him if it mattered what DPMS sold it as to him and he he stated no, it was what he filled out the 4473 as. I had him do it as pistol but is this correct? I saw some lowers at another vendor with "for pistol only".

If it is pistol that means no stock. If it is rifle that means no short barrel.

[135boomer]

Hmmm, I bought a complete lower a few weeks ago and that question never came up.

[rm9792]

I know the rules on NFA weapons, i was more wondering if this can actually be built as a pistol legally instead of a rifle. Who determines if a receiver is a rifle or pistol? Can it switch between both if configured properly?

[SCone]

Seems like there's a rule about the origin of the lower. If it began as a pistol, it can become a rifle but a rifle cannot become a pistol. Or something just as nutty. As long as it meets the requirements (ie-pistol w/short barrel, no stock & rifle w/stock, long barrel) then why should anyone care.

[rm9792]

Yeah, it is one of those "no one would really know" deals but I just want to make sure before I build something. We all know the ATF can be a pain in the (donkey). I agree, if they saw it in a pistol config they would have no way of knowing it had a rifle upper and stock last week.

[rm9792]

Remembered AR15.com and found this letter from ATF http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 2&t=245366 . Pretty much answered my question, thanks everyone.

[SCone]

Yeah, it is one of those "no one would really know" deals but I just want to make sure before I build something. We all know the ATF can be a pain in the (donkey). I agree, if they saw it in a pistol config they would have no way of knowing it had a rifle upper and stock last week.

Correct, but if anyone ever ran the serial number, you would have a huge FEDERAL problem.

[rm9792]

Thats what my original question was about. Does DPMS state what it is for when sold to the wholesaler? Does the 4473 decide? How would ATF run the serial when the FFL doesnt send it anywhere? It is a "virgin" lower so from the AR websites ATF letters it has to be a pistol in the first build. But the ATF has been known to change horses midstream. Dont know if i am gonna build it yet, only reason I wanted an AR pistol is cause I dont have one (but thats a good reason, huh).

[mdek]

If you want a detailed treatment of the subject, go here: http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=122&t=266557

Basically, the most important thing is that when a lower receiver is built as a pistol for the first time, it has never had a stock attached to it before. If it has had a stock attached previously, then that first pistol build is a serious federal tax violation .

Basically, you can get a "virgin" lower, configure it as a pistol, document it however you see fit, then theoretically switch it back and forth between rifle and pistol configurations all you want (as long as you take care not to inadvertently build a SBR in the process). I know that Stag arms will let you email them and ask about a serial number, and they'll say something like "it left our factory as a unbuilt lower receiver, sent to XYZ merchant" (where XYZ happened to be where I purchased mine from). For good measure, I had my FFL indicate "pistol" on the 4473, then took a picture of a pistol build on that day's newspaper. Whether this is "good enough" or not, I hope so, but I am not a lawyer and your luck can vary wildly with the ATF, depending on the day and the current phase of the moon. Take it all with a grain of salt.

[drw]

Basically, you can get a "virgin" lower, configure it as a pistol, document it however you see fit

That opens a new question: what do you do about the lower that you may have bought from a private party at a gun show the next town over? You don't know its history and don't even remember which guy you bought it from?

[ScubaSigGuy]

Technically speaking the ATF can get you just for having the parts to assemble an SBR in your posession, if you don't have a tax stamp.

[KaiserB]

Basically, you can get a "virgin" lower, configure it as a pistol, document it however you see fit

That opens a new question: what do you do about the lower that you may have bought from a private party at a gun show the next town over? You don't know its history and don't even remember which guy you bought it from?

You could check the weapon history through a serial number inquiry with BATFE. It may be easier, and much safer (not even having the perception of SBR, or NFA weapons) by purchasing a receiver marked "Pistol"

[mdek]

Basically, you can get a "virgin" lower, configure it as a pistol, document it however you see fit

That opens a new question: what do you do about the lower that you may have bought from a private party at a gun show the next town over? You don't know its history and don't even remember which guy you bought it from?

You could check the weapon history through a serial number inquiry with BATFE. It may be easier, and much safer (not even having the perception of SBR, or NFA weapons) by purchasing a receiver marked "Pistol"

Well, if you buy from a private party, you can't really know for sure, unless you have them certify in writing or something, I guess. As for the pistol-marked lowers, my understanding is that it doesn't matter what it's marked as: if you build a stripped pistol-marked lower first as a rifle, then it can't go back to pistol. The only advantage is that it'll probably make LEO less nervous should they check the AR pistol out.