CHL vs. Pit Bull in Denton, TX

[getamap]

Well, I found this article interesting to say the least.

LINK

Whether or not this man's actions were proper is debatable, but I am satisfied with the outcome. On another note I find it interesting at how ... "resilient" dogs seem to be in regards to being shot. Although I haven't had personal experience with this, I have read quite a few articles where a dog has sustained multiple shots which should have been fatal and somehow it is still strong enough to attack.

[Lumberjack98]

"An officer responded and found a man standing in the 3800 block of Thunderbird Street with his hands on his head, according to the police report. He told the officer that he was armed and that he had a license to legally carry a gun. The officer took the gun for safekeeping and asked the man what was happening."

I guess the man couldn't be trusted to retain his own gun in a safe manner?

[AEA]

I have a very similar thing happening now at my residence in Grayson County.
Next door was vacant for a couple of years and then last year a family moved in. They brought with them one young female Pit Bull. I was not too concerned since their property was fenced.

At that time there was a male Pit Bull that roamed the neighborhood and had already killed another smaller pet dog. So a problem actually already existed.

Well, the first day the new occupants arrived, I find their dog in my yard. I go over and tell the guy that the dog cannot roam the neighborhood. It will be shot by someone (maybe me)? He said that there was a small hole in his fence and the dog got out that way. He would fix the fence.

Time went on and the next thing was that the feamle was in heat and you guessed it, the male came around and did his thing. Right out there in the street in front of my house.

Present day.......now there are 3 pups about 10 months old next door and they routinely get out of the fence and into my yard with the Bitch.
If I wanted dog poop in my yard, I would buy my own dog poop making machine. I had bought a paintball marker with the idea that I may have to use it some day to scare them away and best to use that rather than wasting ammo. I came home from a long trip away on the 5th and got into the house with no problems. But, when I went out to the car to get something, as I came back to the house the three dogs were in my back yard barking up a storm and slowly advancing on me. I was not armed!

I made it into the house and grabbed my new tippman98 custom paintball marker and came back out and opened up on them. I had not sighted it in and missed most shots, but did manage to hit one right in the butt as they all took off. I have since sighted it in with the attached red dot sight and 14" sniper barrel and I am ready for the next time.

So, now I don't know what I am going to do. Continue to use the paintball marker and run them off as necessary, or bring out the 870 and do some damage. The property is in the country and there is no animal control to call. The Sheriff's office has known about the original Male Pit Bull running loose and has told the neighbors to just kill it next time it is out and nothing will be done.

Suggestions?

Further to the original poster's thoughts.....
I personally would never use a pistol to put down a dog. Only if it was a last resort and I had no other way out. Reason is because a dog is fast and hard to hit with a pistol. If you are actually intent on killing a dog, a shotgun is your best choice with 00 buck.

[anygunanywhere]

I have been flamed before for suggesting what I would do but if you are in an unincorporated area then the answer is obvious to me. Male PBs that are loose and have already killed pets should be maggot food. The same with animals in your yard that threaten you.

Anygunanywhere

[Purplehood]

"An officer responded and found a man standing in the 3800 block of Thunderbird Street with his hands on his head, according to the police report. He told the officer that he was armed and that he had a license to legally carry a gun. The officer took the gun for safekeeping and asked the man what was happening."

I guess the man couldn't be trusted to retain his own gun in a safe manner?

If I were an LEO and saw a man standing with his hands on his head, I would imagine that he was upset/distraught. I don't blame the LEO at all. In fact, I bet the man standing there didn't have a problem with it either. But that is just a guess.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't want to get into the pit bull argument again... I own a 1/2 pit bull, and she's a sweet and loving dog. I've had her for almost 13 years, and she's never attacked anybody. I also am a responsible pet owner, and I don't let my dog wander the neighborhood. PERIOD.

That being said though, I don't blame the other guy for shooting the dog in the first place. If the owner is a dirtbag, and the police can't or won't do anything about it and have advised the neighborhood to handle it themselves, then he did what he had to do, and it was the right thing to do.

This part reflects poorly on the pit bull's owner:

The dog was shot through the chest and back but the bullet apparently hit no vital organs.

The owner refused to take the dog for medical treatment, according to the report.

What kind of moral degenerate doesn't take his shot dog to see a vet? The idiot shouldn't be a dog owner to begin with, never mind the breed! What a jerk.

(...edited to add back in a sanitized version of what I had originally posted about the dog's owner, which was rightfully deleted for the use of pseudo-profanity.)

[CHL/LEO]

If you are actually intent on killing a dog, a shotgun is your best choice with 00 buck.

One of our SWAT officers shot a charging Pit Bull with a shotgun and 00 Buck. The dog was about 4 or 5 yards away and coming straight on toward him when he shot it. The dog yelped, ran right by the officer before he could even cycle the slide for another shot and then ran straight into the APC that the SWAT team had just deployed from. The dog sat there licking itself until an animal control officer arrived to capture it. Dog went to the pound and survived (for a few days anyway).

I don't know if a handgun, MP5 or M4 would have done any better in this case but it just goes to show that a shotgun might not be the "one shot" cure for everything. On second thought the MP5 or M4 on full-auto probably would have worked better. Also, over the years we have had officers shoot attacking dogs with their handguns. The results have been mixed but the facts do show that the .357 SIG performs better than the 147g 9mm - that should be no surprise to anyone. The 9mm is still the standard issue weapon for all officers on our department but more and more are buying their own .357 Sig when they have the opportunity.

[bdickens]

From my understanding, the 147gr 9mm rounds are notorious underperformers anyway. Something like a 115gr or 124gr +P or +P+ has a much better track record.

[AEA]

Thanks CHL/LEO for the info.......

I agree that the shotgun is not the "one shot" cure for all........

But in this case, I am not willing to spend 25,000.00 for a MP5 and the tax stamp just to have it confiscated after using it to kill a dog. Not to mention the liability of spraying full auto around a densely populated area trying to hit a dog.

Had I been armed at the time it would have been with a .45 ACP and if I could hit it in the head, it would be a "one shot" stop. Problem is, as you have already stated, a hit to the head of a running dog with a pistol would be a once in a lifetime shot.

So, I think I am going to continue to use the paintball marker and start calling the Sheriff's Office every time the dogs are in my yard. Of course the dogs will not be in my yard by the time the Officer arrives, but at least there will be a record at the Office. Also, they might get tired of me calling and actually do something about it with the owner.

In the end, if none of that works, the 870 will do the job, if I do mine.......

Thanks again.

[CHL/LEO]

From my understanding, the 147gr 9mm rounds are notorious underperformers anyway. Something like a 115gr or 124gr +P or +P+ has a much better track record.

Your right about the 147g and the +P rounds - however, our department only allows officers with a 9mm to carry that round. I know - it makes no sense that they allow officers to carry a .357 Sig with Speer Gold Dot and won't authorize other options in the 9mm. But hey, this is the City of Dallas were talking about so it doesn't have to make sense.

[Purplehood]

Problem is, as you have already stated, a hit to the head of a running dog with a pistol would be a once in a lifetime shot.

That reminds me of when I was a mailman in Clute back in the late 90's. I was a Part-time Flex USPS employee, so I filled in each day for whichever city-carrier was off that particular day. I was on a route where the normal carrier had mentioned a particular house that had a 6ft high chain-link fence which enclosed some sort of large nasty guard dog breed (Doberman?). He stated that the fence was ignored by this dog and I could reasonably expect to see it lurking about the neighborhood hoping to create mayhem at any given time.

Sure enough, I was walking that route and was crossing a yard behind that particular dog's residence when I saw it casually leaping across the fence ahead and to my 10 o'clock. Once across it turned and looked at me, and I swear to this day that it had a look in its eyes of pure joy that the mailman had dropped by for lunch. It then did a hard right-flank and bolted directly at me.

In my exhaustive USPS boot-camp training I had been taught two things that stuck with me. Always carry your mailbag (some carriers like to leave it behind and just carry mail in their hand), and always keep at least a can of Pepper-spray on your belt and readily handy. I did both.

As the dog charged from a distance of about 20 feet across the yard I swung the bag up in front of me with my left arm, and "drew" (more about that later) the Pepper-spray from my belt with my right. Without thinking I continued the motion, aimed the spray, and shot a nice jet of Pepper smack into the doggies snot-locker. The dog promptly called a hasty-retreat with a gratifying yelp, and ran back across the aforementioned fence.

As I grabbed a breath, I heard clapping from across the street. A resident had stood there and witnessed the entire affair and complimented me on my "quick-draw" and accuracy. I only hope that if a similar need arises again, that I can recreate that response and degree of accuracy.

[KaiserB]

I don't want to get into the pit bull argument again... I own a 1/2 pit bull, and she's a sweet and loving dog. I've had her for almost 13 years, and she's never attacked anybody. I also am a responsible pet owner, and I don't let my dog wander the neighborhood. PERIOD.

Key words "Responsible Pet Owner" I would have no issues with a responsible pet owners dog, even if it got loose. Chances are the dog, responds to commands etc.


Most of the PB's around DFW are owned by kids (18-30) who think they are bad to the bone etc. Many of them are irresponsible by letting the dog walk on a 20' leash, or no leash at all. Also they do not maintain their fences to keep the dogs in. These are the PBs that cause problems for everyone... BTW, it is not the dogs fault, it is the Igmo owners.

[ErnieP]

"An officer responded and found a man standing in the 3800 block of Thunderbird Street with his hands on his head, according to the police report. He told the officer that he was armed and that he had a license to legally carry a gun. The officer took the gun for safekeeping and asked the man what was happening."

I guess the man couldn't be trusted to retain his own gun in a safe manner?

If I were an LEO and saw a man standing with his hands on his head, I would imagine that he was upset/distraught. I don't blame the LEO at all. In fact, I bet the man standing there didn't have a problem with it either. But that is just a guess.

Actually, it is appropriate for a CHL to place his hands on his head as law enforcement is arriving at a shooting scene. That said, with the given set of facts, it most likely would be apparent to the LEO pulling up that there was no "conflict", and it may not be an issue. However, when a person has been shot, the LEO pulling up will not know a Good Guy from a BG, and the Good Guy could risk getting drawn on at a minimum. This is a high stress situation, and being focused, the LEO could misunderstand a Good Guys comments or actions.....Hands on the head is a Universal Sign that the LEO is not likely to be at risk from that individual. At any shooting scene, if you are armed you can expect to be disarmed. This is pretty much standard procedure to take control of the scene until everything is sorted out, and to protect the LEO and others present. This is not personal, just good LEO procedure in the world we live in.

[KRoyal]

I think you should get some wood or something and paint it hot pink and put it in the holes in your neighbors fence and see how long it takes them to fix it, Or if it were me the dogs would have been dead along time ago.

[Greybeard]

Quote from article: "He said his dogs never left the driveway and that the man with the gun rode up on a motorcycle and shot the pit bull. "

Yeah, right ... Sounds to me like the dog owner ought to be thrown in the slammer for that one.