Scenario: Terrorist hostage situation in movie theater

[nitrogen]

BTW, this would never happen, as we usually go to AMC with their improperly posted 30.06. Since no guns are allowed there, obviously the terrorists would have turned around and chosen another theater.

(Yes, I know 30.06 only means CHLers and not terrorists with longarms.)

[Excaliber]

How about subterfuge or appeals to morality? Very few men, however fanatical, can harm defenseless women and children face-to-face.

- Jim

This type of appeal can work with "accidental" hostage takers (e.g., a bank robber cornered in the bank). It doesn't work with terrorists.

For evidence, consider Mumbai (500 indiscriminately killed and injured, including women and children), the World Trade Center, the Ma'alot and Beslan school massacres, hundreds of homicide bombings in Israel, Iraq, India, Spain, etc.

In the highly improbable (in the US -due to number of actors, planning, logistics, financing and travel considerations) incident in the OP, the terrorists would not be taking hostages to negotiate for something else. This isn't what they do. They take hostages to kill them in gruesomely spectacular fashion to create terror. Understanding this is key to evaluating your options if you're ever so unfortunate as to be caught up in a real incident like this.

Terrorists who are being trained for potential US operations are being prepared to look for armed citizens / off duty LEO's and eliminate them at the outset. There will be no opportunity to organize others to engage in a coordinated response. The only narrow window of opportunity will be in the first few moments when they initiate their attempt to take control, usually by massive use of firepower to inflict large numbers of casualties. If you survive the first few seconds, the most viable strategy is to pick what you believe to be the weakest point in their noose and attempt to fight your way out through that.

What you are more likely to see here are attacks by single individuals or very small groups of self appointed terrorists with no formal training. They will not make announcements or take hostages, and your first clue will be the first shot. They can be dealt with in the same way as active shooters.

[Liberty]

I would sit still, and make efforts to be appear non combative, try to comfort my family. and look for opportunitys. The terrorist want hostages. I would do what is necessary to protect my family. When you are a fish in a barrel, its a good time to lay low. If at some point a leader can be identified and he can be isolated, I would focus on him. A tough decision a very tough decision whether to take him out or not. There are 2 important issues we haven't considered in this discussions. Most people do survive these terrorist hostage situations and the hostages won't understand the scale of the "takeover"

[Daltex1]

I would stand up and YELL "LETS ROLL!" and probably be dead shirtly afterwords ,but at least I would try. Beslan was awful, I would not want to be in that position but I do think Our police over here would definetley handle it diffrently than the russians did. But then again they did have bombs also. I would hope that I could send at least 1 or 2 of them to paradise and let them have their 72 virgins.

[seamusTX]

The people who plan terrorist attacks use bombs because bombs are impersonal. A bomber can kill people that he never sees. Once the trigger is set, the whole incident is over in a second.

Lone bombers and shooters can also be insane to the point they can barely function in society.

The scenario that I described would have to involve fairly intelligent, sane, disciplined people who can work as a team. That means they have some level of empathy. They may hate others on the basis of ideology and religion, but there is a crack that possibly could be exploited.

Stockholm syndrome can work both ways. Captors sometimes develop sympathy for their hostages. In a few cases, hostages have used this opportunity to escape or be freed.

Quite a few terrorist airplane hijackings have involved the release of women and children.

It's also possible that the captors in this scenario are totally amoral and suicidal, and will not negotiate.

In that case, what is the flaw in their plan? (I really don't know.)

- Jim

[The Annoyed Man]

What do you do now, mall ninjas?

Pray to Gecko45 for inspiration?

Other than that, I have no real idea. I guess I would wait for them to make a mistake, or for some other opportunity to arise, before taking action myself. If at all possible, I would want any action I took to result in eliminating their leader - decapitating the snake. Generally speaking though, I suppose that all my efforts would be directed toward survival, evasion, and escape.

I'm sorry I'm not being more specific, but without further scenario specifics, it is difficult to answer the question.

[ScubaSigGuy]

First off if it's an AMC theater then I would be watching the whole event on the news because there is not a chance I would be there...

I would work quickly to covertly fashion weapons for the unarmed around me. JuJu Bees and Snowcaps make very effective projectiles, when propelled at great velocity, due their high Rockwell hardness (I think that they actually stopped making both of these in the 50's, so the ones you see at theater are over half a century old). Chair arms are easily removed and would provide an edge in hand to hand combat. Popcorn butter "accidentally" spilled in the aisle would make a slippery hazard for the approaching bad guys (just be sure not butter your exit).

And lets not discount the age old and highly accurate weapon of choice for grade school children everywhere... THE SPITBALL!

As I see it they guy in the booth presents the most danger and is the most difficult tactical obstacle so he must be taken out first.

As Musashi and many others have taught us misdirection can weaken the knees of even the strongest enemy. That being said since I always sit in the middle of the theater toward the back I would get some of my fellow prisoners to launch a snow cap attack toward the gunmen at the front left side of the theater thus drawing the attention of the sniper to the furthest point away from me. I would slowly and lowly sneak to the aisle and toward the back of the theater where I would quickly blind the two door guards with precision placed, rapid fire, spitballs to the eyes. I would then rush them and silently terminate them with the pair of Gerber BMF's that I keep in my jacket at all times. Once they were down, that would be the signal for the rest of the force to break out the JUJU Bee's and chair arms while I sneak up to the snipers perch and take him out with my shoulder slung MP-5SD (it really conceals quite well under a GI issue Arctic parka) after which I would systematically pick off any surviving assailants with the dead snipers own PSG-1.

After taking the last BG out I would call 911 and tell them that my life, as well as the lives of many others, was in imminent danger and we had to use deadly force to protect ourselves.

I would then call my lawyer and immediately invoke my 5th amendment rights. I would advise the other moviegoers, now known by the media as "vigilante killers" to do the same.

Oh I almost forgot it might be a good idea to set off the sprinkler alarm on the way out so that evidence of the Snowcaps and JuJu Bees would be dissolved as I wouldn't want a Harris County DA to portray us as having an unfair advantage over the terrorists.


OK for my serious answer... While it might be foolish to act quickly that might be your only opporunity to make it out alive. If they start zip tying peoples hands then I think you might have to try something. But then again who knows, I have a very strong sense of self preservation.

[seamusTX]

Hmm. There are typically too many people in a theater for a dozen terrorists to watch all of them, all the time. They may also plan that most of their captives will not resist, and the few who do resist will attack them directly. They are prepared for the latter event.

What would happen if someone started a fire? What would be the best thing to set on fire? What would produce a lot of smoke? What next?

- Jim

[WildBill]

What would happen if someone started a fire? What would be the best thing to set on fire? What would produce a lot of smoke? What next? - Jim

Probably the butter-flavored grease on the popcorn.

[seamusTX]

Burning popcorn produces quite a bit of acrid smoke.

Let's keep the ideas flowing, guys.

- Jim

[Fangs]

Ask who's anti gun and use them as a meatshield?

Seriously though, really bad situation.

[amber]

How about subterfuge or appeals to morality? Very few men, however fanatical, can harm defenseless women and children face-to-face.

- Jim

In the original scenario they sounded like the same kind of terrorists who murder Israeli women and children.

[amber]

What would happen if someone started a fire? What would be the best thing to set on fire? What would produce a lot of smoke? What next?

- Jim

The seat cushions maybe flame retardant because of fire codes. Can you empty your pepper spray without them noticing it was you?

[GrillKing]

When it appears that the situation is not going to even have a chance at ending well, pray first, then at the next distraction or if the lights go out, make a run for it to the nearest exit, firing and fighting as necessary. Pull the fire alarm on the way if possible to add to the distraction. Hope for the best.

[seamusTX]

Does anyone remember the old text Adventure game from the early days of PCs?

It has now been 21 hours since the hostage situation began. Only the first citizen who took a shot has been killed. A few hostages panicked and have been restrained.

You can see now that there is at least one armed terrorist per door, and an unknown number in the projection booth and dispersed in the audience.

They probably do not have powerful bombs, because they entered surreptitiously, and the theater does not let people bring in bags or parcels. They may have suicide vests or a few grenades.

The terrorists' plan says that zip-tying everyone, searching people, or confiscating cell phones would put them in the middle of too many people, who might have weapons or might mob them.

Makeshift toilets have been set up for those who need to use them, so a very limited amount of moving around is allowed, with the guys with the machine gun in the projection booth watching it.

People calling out on cell phones have found that of course this is worldwide news. Terrorist leaders are using the situation as a platform for haranguing the west for its evil blah blah blah -- you've heard all that before.

The theater is surrounded by police and Marines. The terrorists are talking to someone in authority, but their goal is not yet known. (Maybe their goal is to distract attention from something else.)

The lack of drinking water is becoming a problem, as is fatigue for all parties.

The police can't come through the doors on foot, because all the doors are covered.

Quite likely at this point, they are thinking of ramming the exterior wall with an APC. Cutting the electricity would be an interesting twist, if they did that. You have no way of knowing.

You can start a fire. Polyester and cotton clothing burns pretty well. Starting a fire would trigger the sprinker system, and that would create a huge distraction.

What now?

- Jim