Textbook self-defense from armed robbery

[seamusTX]

A Florida man was confronted by an armed robber and successfully stopped the threat, called the cops, no charges. The robber had a long criminal history.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/community/n ... 3794.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note that the writer or editor got the victim and attacker right.

[neighbor] Muldrow said she heard two to four shots and ran out to see what was wrong.

Never a good idea, running into a gunfight.

- Jim

[atxgun]

I've always wondered what I would do if I were surprised like that was all ready staring down the business end of a gun. I don't know that I would be able to draw, aim and fire before he could just pull the trigger.

[KD5NRH]

I've always wondered what I would do if I were surprised like that was all ready staring down the business end of a gun. I don't know that I would be able to draw, aim and fire before he could just pull the trigger.

Hmmm...

While Kelley does not have a permit to carry a handgun, a permit is not required to own a gun or bring it from your car to your home, said Sgt. John Phillips, who was at the scene Friday morning.

Makes me wonder if he had it in his hand, with something draped over it, or else had it in a coat pcket so he could pretend to comply until he fired his first shot.

[seamusTX]

... had it in a coat pcket so he could pretend to comply until he fired his first shot.

That could work, especially if you practice point shooting (shooting by muscle memory without visually aiming).

Another technique that I have mentioned before is to act nervous (this should not be difficult under the circumstances), take out your wallet or "mugger roll" with your off hand, and drop it to distract the robber.

Or maybe the defender was just the luckiest man in Florida yesterday.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

... had it in a coat pcket so he could pretend to comply until he fired his first shot.

That could work, especially if you practice point shooting (shooting by muscle memory without visually aiming).

Another technique that I have mentioned before is to act nervous (this should not be difficult under the circumstances), take out your wallet or "mugger roll" with your off hand, and drop it to distract the robber.

Or maybe the defender was just the luckiest man in Florida yesterday.

- Jim

The coat pocket carry works pretty well with a revolver if you have to shoot through the clothing - not so well with an autopistol, which tends to get the slide get caught up in the fabric after the first round, giving you a 1 shot pistol.

I don't recommend dropping the wallet. Armed robbers are as volatile as a meth head cat on a hot tin roof - they'll shoot you for anything they see as resistance, hesitation, or noncompliance, or for no particular reason at all. While it has occasionally worked in real life, it has also failed spectacularly. I wouldn't bet my life on this one.

If a bad guy is dumb enough to put his gun within contact distance and you think he's going to shoot, you can (and should) take control of the muzzle and move it off line with your body before attempting to fire your own gun. (A tie for losing is not a good thing in a shootout.) LEO's are trained to use the two officer contact / cover method for dealing with suspects for this very reason. Lone officers will keep their distance while covering a suspect until backup arrives to avoid being on the wrong end of a disarming technique, which can happen with lightning speed and is taught and practiced in prisons.

If you are quick with your hands, use distraction and do it with practiced, appropriate technique at the right time in his OODA cycle, he will literally be unable to react in time to prevent you from tying up his weapon. This is not to say it always works - things go wrong here just like anywhere else, but it beats letting him keep his gun aligned with your head and hoping he doesn't pull the trigger when you pull yours, especially since an unaimed shot is not likely to result in instant incapacitation.

[seamusTX]

The coat pocket carry works pretty well with a revolver if you have to shoot through the clothing - not so well with an autopistol, which tends to get the slide get caught up in the fabric after the first round, giving you a 1 shot pistol.

Good point.

A revolver that has a hammer (which is, what? 95%) can also get hung up in fabric.

I ruled out pocket carry for myself a long time ago, and don't give it much thought.

No further details of this event have been published on the web, so we can only speculate.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

The coat pocket carry works pretty well with a revolver if you have to shoot through the clothing - not so well with an autopistol, which tends to get the slide get caught up in the fabric after the first round, giving you a 1 shot pistol.

Good point.

A revolver that has a hammer (which is, what? 95%) can also get hung up in fabric.

I ruled out pocket carry for myself a long time ago, and don't give it much thought.

No further details of this event have been published on the web, so we can only speculate.

- Jim

The concealed or shrouded hammer designs are best for pocket carry applications.

[bryang]

When I first read the article I thought, also, that maybe he had his gun in his hand with something like a coat covering it. It will be interesting to hear some more coverage on this event.

I had thought about if I was in that kind of situation of dropping something (wallet, keys) to try and distract the BG, but Excaliber did it again...changed my mind on tactics.

Thanks,
-geo

[Excaliber]

When I first read the article I thought, also, that maybe he had his gun in his hand with something like a coat covering it. It will be interesting to hear some more coverage on this event.

I had thought about if I was in that kind of situation of dropping something (wallet, keys) to try and distract the BG, but Excaliber did it again...changed my mind on tactics.

Thanks,
-geo

Bryang,

For a little more background on this, you might want to check out the No Nonsense Self Defense page where the author discusses the kinds of folks who commit robberies. He uses the label "mugger" for the one on one robberies of the type we've been discussing here. It may provide some background to help put my recommendation in perspective.

[seamusTX]

Interesting read.

I do have one minor linguistic quibble with it: I take a mugger to be a robber who will do violence after getting the victim's money, jewelry, etc., and making the victim grovel -- that is, a completely amoral sociopath.

The term mugger came into common use (AFAIK) during the 1970s, when this type of crime was common in Northeastern cities like New York and Boston. Cf. Death Wish.

In any case, these are extremely dangerous, unpredictable criminals.

- Jim

[Excaliber]

Interesting read.

I do have one minor linguistic quibble with it: I take a mugger to be a robber who will do violence after getting the victim's money, jewelry, etc., and making the victim grovel -- that is, a completely amoral sociopath.

The term mugger came into common use (AFAIK) during the 1970s, when this type of crime was common in Northeastern cities like New York and Boston. Cf. Death Wish.

In any case, these are extremely dangerous, unpredictable criminals.

- Jim

Elsewhere on the same page, Mr. McYoung acknowledges that technically both the folks he calls "muggers" and "robbers" fall into the same legal category. He makes the distinction because the personal characteristics of the folks who commit one on one street robberies differ from those who victimize high value businesses, and the differences are relevant to how you need to act to survive each type. Both are highly dangerous, but the "muggers" are extremely so.

[seamusTX]

Agree muggers are nuts.

Organized robbers might try to get away without committing capital murder, which, the last time I looked, was guaranteed to get life in prison without parole even in states that do not currently execute criminals.

PC 19.03. CAPITAL MURDER. (a) A person commits an offense if the person commits murder as defined under Section 19.02(b)(1) and:
(2) the person intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat ...

- Jim

[bryang]

Excaliber

Bryang,

For a little more background on this, you might want to check out the No Nonsense Self Defense page where the author discusses the kinds of folks who commit robberies. He uses the label "mugger" for the one on one robberies of the type we've been discussing here. It may provide some background to help put my recommendation in perspective.

Thanks, for the website. It is *very* interesting and helpful.

Thanks,
-geo

[bryang]

Agree muggers are nuts.

Organized robbers might try to get away without committing capital murder, which, the last time I looked, was guaranteed to get life in prison without parole even in states that do not currently execute criminals.

PC 19.03. CAPITAL MURDER. (a) A person commits an offense if the person commits murder as defined under Section 19.02(b)(1) and:
(2) the person intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat ...

- Jim

Jim, I want to thank you, too, for all of your excellent advice.

Thanks,
-geo

[Excaliber]

Excaliber

Bryang,

For a little more background on this, you might want to check out the No Nonsense Self Defense page where the author discusses the kinds of folks who commit robberies. He uses the label "mugger" for the one on one robberies of the type we've been discussing here. It may provide some background to help put my recommendation in perspective.

Thanks, for the website. It is *very* interesting and helpful.

Thanks,
-geo

You're more than welcome.

I'm always pleased to help anyone who is genuinely looking to learn.