cops look like robbers

[austin-tatious]

After reading this post in reason.com's Daily Brickbats section, I find myself re-evaluating what I'd do if I was in the proverbial fast food joint and what appears to be robbers come through the door. I know this was in Florida, not Texas, and I hope Texas undercover cops don't do this kind of thing. But still...

What do y'all think?

http://www.reason.com/brickbat/archive/2008-10-01.html

You Deserve a Break Today

October 3, 2008
When masked gunmen stormed into a Sarasota, Florida, McDonald's pointing their weapons at everyone and screaming for them to get down, some customers thought it was robbers. But it was just the police. They had been waiting outside to arrest Juan T. Dixon after an undercover cop and informant sold him cocaine and Ecstasy.

And this is the article they refer to:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/12 ... pect/imwY/
Sarasota Police Storm McDonald's To Catch Drug Suspect

By ANTHONY CORMIER

Sarasota Herald-Tribune

Published: July 12, 2008

SARASOTA — Undercover police officers stormed a McDonald's restaurant and ordered diners and employees to the ground as they tried to catch a suspected cocaine dealer Thursday.

The Sarasota police officers were dressed in black, carried rifles and wore masks when they ran into the restaurant on the corner of Beneva and Fruitville roads. They burst through the door at dinner time, yelled for patrons to hide under tables and chased a 24-year-old man who hid in a bathroom.

It was a drug sting that went bad because of a milkshake.

Police say the arrest would have gone smoother if the suspect, Juan T. Dixon, had not stopped at the door of the restaurant to go back and grab his shake from the counter.

It was supposed to work like this:

A confidential informant and an undercover detective waited inside the restaurant to sell Dixon an ounce of cocaine and 100 Ecstasy pills for $950.

More than a dozen officers waited outside, including Lt. Steve Breakstone, who organized the operation. His role was to radio for squad cars to drive up for the arrest once the deal was complete.

The uniformed officers were supposed to swoop in and arrest Dixon in the parking lot. The deal, according to reports, went as planned -- with Breakstone calling for the squad cars when Dixon was about to leave.

Then, the milkshake.

With the squad cars zooming into the parking lot, Dixon turned around to get his drink from the counter.

When he got back to the door, he saw the cars waiting for him and, realizing he was about to be arrested, he ran for the bathroom.

He shoved a boy out of the way and hid inside.

The police officers burst through the door and yelled for everyone to get down. A customer, a woman who did not want her name used, ducked under a table and worried that the masked men were robbers, not police.

"I thought it was a gang," she said. "I mean, they had masks and guns and I never heard anyone say, 'police.' I thought these guys were coming to rob us."

Undercover officers routinely wear masks during drug buys to conceal their identities.

Breakstone and Sarasota Police Chief Peter Abbott say officers had no choice but to rush into the restaurant because they thought Dixon was armed and might flush the drugs down a toilet or barricade himself in the restroom.

"We had to go get him, or this thing could have been much worse," Breakstone said.

Breakstone and Abbott would not say whether detectives or the suspect chose the McDonald's as the location for the deal.

There were no injuries. Dixon was arrested and jailed on drug trafficking charges.

According to police reports, he still had the drugs on him when he was arrested. He was held without bail on Friday in the Sarasota County jail.

Abbott said it is common for undercover detectives to conduct stings and drug surveillance in public places because they do not want to raise a suspect's suspicions and place officers in greater jeopardy by requesting more remote locations.

"We don't want these guys to get their hackles up and do something stupid," Abbott said.

[Crossfire]

Similar situation happened in Fort Worth a few years agao, and resulted in a police officer being shot. I believe they changed their policy after that.

http://www.officer.com/article/article. ... eSection=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ramsey was working undercover as a narcotics officer Jan. 2, 2003, when she was shot while trying to arrest a man suspected of dealing drugs. Ramsey said she was approaching the front door of the E-Z Food Store at 968 Elmwood Ave., where the suspect had entered, when she was shot.

The man who shot her, a store clerk, told police that he fired at the masked and armed officer in the mistaken belief that she was a robber.

[Purplehood]

Setting up a sting-operation in a crowded fast-food restaurant? Need I say more?

[austin-tatious]

Setting up a sting-operation in a crowded fast-food restaurant? Need I say more?

Note the sting was intended to take place in the parking lot (not the restaurant), though that is also questionable tactics. However, due to bad timing (or the result of bad tactics?), the cops ended up entering the McDonalds to grab the BG.

I'm starting to think that the best response is the same I would take if the masked and armed men were indeed robbers, not cops. Try to get out the easiest exit (with whoever might be with me) and call 911 after getting out. If I can't "safely" exit the place then get to cover/concealment (if I can do it without drawing attention), get my gun ready but still hidden, call 911, and watch carefully to be a good witness and be ready to "take action" if life is threatened. However, in this case the account indicates there was very little time between when the cops entered and when they got into the bathroom, so I likely would just have sat there with my mouth open in shock and awe and ended up doing nothing.

[Purplehood]

By definition, a sting is a situation arranged/constructed by Law Enforcement Agents. Don't get me wrong, I fully support LEOs. I just think that some extremely bad-judgment occured here. The minute that things looked funny, it should have been called-off. Instead, it was escalated based on a situation that did not have to happen.
The potential for someone to try and defend themselves pops-up. What then? Does shooting someone who honestly thought that they were defending themselves and/or loved-ones become justified as a necessary evil of police-work?

[bryang]

I am not a policeman, but I think this was a very poorly executed sting operation, especially at a crowed Mc D's at dinner time. Why didn't they just wait until he pulled out of the parking lot and executed a felony stop? I'm sure he would have still had the drugs on him...and a milk shake, too.

-geo

[BTin]

Even if they had yelled police, who would believe it nowadays with the people not even in uniform? I sure wouldn't!

I wonder what would happen if someone else in the crowd drew a concealed weapon? I wonder if that person would still be alive.

I totally agree that it is very poor planning. I honestly don't understand these military tactics. So what if the guy flushed the drugs? They were just purchased from a police officer. Is that not good enough? Why can't you wait until the guy is walking to his house or someplace else that is much less public?

[DoubleJ]

I've been watching this thread periodically all day, and the one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that a criminal decided to hole himself up in a bathroom, and to prevent a hostage situation (or at least, that's what I'm reading into this), the Cops ran into MickyD's and snatched this guy.

do I agree with how this thing went down? no. but I do think the cops were trying to minmize the catastrophe level of this thing. I don't know, however, if the cops knew this guy had gone into the bathroom, or if they had to eyeball every person in the place before making their way to the bathroom. if they had to do an extensive search, i really think some badges needed to come quick, fast, and in a hurrah!

[AJSully421]

i support our GOOD local law enforcement officers, but this is terrible, and heads aught to roll. If i had been in there, i would have thought the exact same thing. Knowing Section 9 of the penal code forwards and backwards, I would at least wait for them to demand customers' wallets, or for the employees to open the cash register before i would start popping them off... as they would not have done anything besides run in with guns and tell everyone to get down, no crime yet. but i know many people who would simply start shooting if they saw a man with a mask and a gun.

very poor planning, and even worse execution. thank God that no body was injured or killed.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

wow I just hope that Texas Cops arent this ignorant...setting up a sting in a public place frequented by children. I dont care that it was in the parking lot and not the restaurant children and innocent bystanders could have been there too. this just screams of poor planning and absolutely no thinking.

[srothstein]

I just wanted to point out one misconception. The cops may or may not have chosen the location. When you are setting up a drug sting of this type, both the crook and the cops need to agree on a location. The cops do not always get to choose it, and it is hard to tell the crook McD's is too crowded because we are going to arrest you and there may be innocents in danger. Smart crooks want to make deals like this in crowded public places because they think it is safer, both from the cops and the other bad guys.

From the way the article was written, I am guessing the cops were not too happy with the location and tried to deal with it as best as they could. The real mistake was in jumping the gun to make the arrest in the parking lot. I think I would have waited until he got in his car and then pulled it over, just to avoid the crowd.

But yes, I do have a bias in favor of law enforcement.

[Liberty]

From the way the article was written, I am guessing the cops were not too happy with the location and tried to deal with it as best as they could. The real mistake was in jumping the gun to make the arrest in the parking lot. I think I would have waited until he got in his car and then pulled it over, just to avoid the crowd.

But yes, I do have a bias in favor of law enforcement.

A traffic stop doesn't sound like as much fun as doing the ninja thing.

[KRM45]

I too have a slight bias... I'm sure if the BG had gotten to his car and run when the police lit him up, quite possibly killing someone on the road, people would be hollering "why did they let him drive off in the first place."

Our law enforcement officers have difficult jobs to do, and they make difficult decisions all the time. In hindsight these decisions sometimes appear to be bad ones, but to say heads should roll, etc. seems pretty harsh to me. I'm glad all my decisions and actions aren't aired for all to judge like they seem to be for the police...

[Frost]

Different prohibition, same "stuff".

[Liberty]

Different prohibition, same "stuff".

Yeah but now with ninja's !!