cop shoots perp 22 times, 17 center mass, and perp live...

[Wildscar]

...for atleast 4 mins.

For those that think one shot will do the trick. And especially for those that think a 5 round mag requirement is a good thing. This is a long story but well worth the read.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-arti ... A06A47B949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[killerfly128]

...for atleast 4 mins.

For those that think one shot will do the trick. And especially for those that think a 5 round mag requirement is a good thing. This is a long story but well worth the read.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-arti ... A06A47B949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lol @ the 1911 guys that think one mag is enough

In all seriousness, things like this make me glad i carry a extra mag and sometimes two.

[AEA]

WOW !

I guess it was never possible for him to get his shotgun from the inside of the patrol car or a rifle from the trunk (if it was available)?

We can all second guess this, but my feeling is that when the Officer got out of his Patrol Car the 2nd time and was approaching the perp and seeing the movement and getting the feeling that the guy was armed and waiting for him, why did he not acknowledge his instinct and immediately return to his car for the shotgun?

Why did he let him return to his car after searching him? Why not cuff him and sit him on the ground?

Also, why did he not call for backup while he was in his car trying the computer check?

[CopOnce]

Thank God that I didn't have to face a situation such as this...I've been in a couple of shootings, but none where it took 22 rounds to take someone down. I get asked at times why I carry so many rounds with me (36) and they wonder why. I hope I never have to test my skills of reload and react as a civilian.

[killerfly128]

WOW !

I guess it was never possible for him to get his shotgun from the inside of the patrol car or a rifle from the trunk (if it was available)?

He was hit pretty bad by the time he got to the back of the cruser, he may not have had time to get it open. besides, in a shoot out i would rather be shooting what i had right there then trying to get a long gun while under fire.

We can all second guess this, but my feeling is that when the Officer got out of his Patrol Car the 2nd time and was approaching the perp and seeing the movement and getting the feeling that the guy was armed and waiting for him, why did he not acknowledge his instinct and immediately return to his car for the shotgun?

We all try to rationalize, besides it may be agenst policy to present a long gun with out making a felony stop. He should have called for backup as soon as his gut started talking.

[Mike from Texas]

...for atleast 4 mins.

For those that think one shot will do the trick. And especially for those that think a 5 round mag requirement is a good thing. This is a long story but well worth the read.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-arti ... A06A47B949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lol @ the 1911 guys that think one mag is enough

In all seriousness, things like this make me glad i carry a extra mag and sometimes two.

I carry a 1911 but I also carry (3) 8 round magazines. (1) in the gun and (2) on the hip. Also carry a BUG with a spare mag. Overkill? Maybe. But stories like this show how things can go bad in a hurry.

[killerfly128]

...for atleast 4 mins.

For those that think one shot will do the trick. And especially for those that think a 5 round mag requirement is a good thing. This is a long story but well worth the read.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-arti ... A06A47B949" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lol @ the 1911 guys that think one mag is enough

In all seriousness, things like this make me glad i carry a extra mag and sometimes two.

I carry a 1911 but I also carry (3) 8 round magazines. (1) in the gun and (2) on the hip. Also carry a BUG with a spare mag. Overkill? Maybe. But stories like this show how things can go bad in a hurry.

you are the exception to the rule. On another DFW forum (DFWstangs) they seem to belive that a .45 acp will stop a bus. Back when i had a 1911 i was carrying 3 mags as well. all of um wilson 47d 8 rounders along with one in the pipe for a total of 25 rounds. Now i have the USP compact with a total of 27 rounds with one spare, 40 rounds with 2 spares.

[Purplehood]

Seriously rethinking my lack of an additional mag for carry now.

[M9FAN]

Carrying two extra mags with my XD 45 provides me with a total of 40 rds. of .45. Carrying two extra mags with my Glock 22 provides me with a total of 46 rds. of .40. As this story illustrates, it's better to have too much than too little...

[Excaliber]

This post is a good reminder of the 3 mechanisms for stopping a human assailant:

1) A vital central nervous system hit (brain stem or cervical spine)

2) Destruction of a vital skeletal support structure (spine or pelvis). A wound of
this type will generally keep the BG from moving around, but he may still be
able to fire a weapon, particularly with a pelvic hit.

3) Hypovolemic shock (blood loss to the point that brain oxygenation falls below
the level required to maintain consciousness)

1 and 2 did not happen in this case. Method 3 takes time, even with well placed hits. As this case shows, a determined assailant can continue to function and take lethal action during this period.

Remember the FBI's Miami shootout, where one of the BG's killed and injured several FBI agents over a period of several minutes after he had received a nonsurvivable chest wound.

Folks in the real world don't respond to being shot like they do in the movies. Prepare accordingly.

[casingpoint]

It's conclusive.

.40 =/< 9mm

[The Annoyed Man]

you are the exception to the rule. On another DFW forum (DFWstangs) they seem to belive that a .45 acp will stop a bus. Back when i had a 1911 i was carrying 3 mags as well. all of um wilson 47d 8 rounders along with one in the pipe for a total of 25 rounds. Now i have the USP compact with a total of 27 rounds with one spare, 40 rounds with 2 spares.

I carry a Kimber 1911 with 22 rounds - three 7 round mags with one of them in the gun, with one round in the pipe. I also sometimes carry an H&K USP Compact (.40) with two 12 round mags, one in the gun + a spare, with one round in the pipe, for a total of 25 rounds. That's a 3 round total capacity difference between the two pistols.

Here's the thing... I know I can hit with the Kimber, and I don't shoot the USP as well - even though I fire at least as many practice rounds through it as I do through my Kimber. Given A) that I am a better shot with my Kimber; and B) that the .45 has a documented performance advantage over the .40; and C) that the total round difference between the two pistols for me is 3 rounds; I choose to carry the 1911 as my primary carry weapon. Three rounds doesn't seem like that much of an advantage if I can't shoot the pistol as well, particularly if the .40 caliber rounds absorbed by the BG hit with less authority than the .45 caliber rounds I prefer to carry. The main tactical advantage I can see to the H&K in my particular case is having to only do one reload to access all the rounds, instead of two reloads as the Kimber would require - but I don't see that as having much bearing in how I choose to live my life.

OTH, I am not an LEO. I don't have the responsibility of being ready for Armageddon on the streets at night. I deliberately avoid placing myself in jeopardy, primarily by staying home at night, and not going into dangerous areas. At some point, I choose to compromise between the total amount of lead I can sling in a given situation, and my day to day comfort and convenience. 22 rounds of .45 ACP seems like a good compromise in that regard, and I don't see it as being ill-prepared, as you seem to imply. As one wag on this board famously quoted just the other day, if I was expecting trouble, I would have brought a rifle along - which is why my primary home defense weapons are an AR15 and a 12 gauge shotgun.

[Purplehood]

It's conclusive.

.40 =/< 9mm

Equal to or less than a 9mm? If that is your claim, it is based on too many variables to be conclusive. I hope I never get to test it.

[killerfly128]

you are the exception to the rule. On another DFW forum (DFWstangs) they seem to belive that a .45 acp will stop a bus. Back when i had a 1911 i was carrying 3 mags as well. all of um wilson 47d 8 rounders along with one in the pipe for a total of 25 rounds. Now i have the USP compact with a total of 27 rounds with one spare, 40 rounds with 2 spares.

I carry a Kimber 1911 with 22 rounds - three 7 round mags with one of them in the gun, with one round in the pipe. I also sometimes carry an H&K USP Compact (.40) with two 12 round mags, one in the gun + a spare, with one round in the pipe, for a total of 25 rounds. That's a 3 round total capacity difference between the two pistols.

Here's the thing... I know I can hit with the Kimber, and I don't shoot the USP as well - even though I fire at least as many practice rounds through it as I do through my Kimber. Given A) that I am a better shot with my Kimber; and B) that the .45 has a documented performance advantage over the .40; and C) that the total round difference between the two pistols for me is 3 rounds; I choose to carry the 1911 as my primary carry weapon. Three rounds doesn't seem like that much of an advantage if I can't shoot the pistol as well, particularly if the .40 caliber rounds absorbed by the BG hit with less authority than the .45 caliber rounds I prefer to carry. The main tactical advantage I can see to the H&K in my particular case is having to only do one reload to access all the rounds, instead of two reloads as the Kimber would require - but I don't see that as having much bearing in how I choose to live my life.

OTH, I am not an LEO. I don't have the responsibility of being ready for Armageddon on the streets at night. I deliberately avoid placing myself in jeopardy, primarily by staying home at night, and not going into dangerous areas. At some point, I choose to compromise between the total amount of lead I can sling in a given situation, and my day to day comfort and convenience. 22 rounds of .45 ACP seems like a good compromise in that regard, and I don't see it as being ill-prepared, as you seem to imply. As one wag on this board famously quoted just the other day, if I was expecting trouble, I would have brought a rifle along - which is why my primary home defense weapons are an AR15 and a 12 gauge shotgun.

One of these days i need to beg you to let me check out that USP compact in .40 ... I ave been thinking hard about switching

[seamusTX]

This appears to be the original story:

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/10 ... shoot.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It happened in Jacksonville, Florida, in 1997.

The criminal shooter's motive is not known. He had a long arrest record and had recently been in jail for drunk driving. Since he was drinking in the car again, possibly he didn't want to go back to jail. Or maybe he wanted to commit suicide by cop.

My other comment is that it was extremely fortunate that this incident occurred in a deserted place.

- Jim