CHL and Security interaction

[txinvestigator]

I will tell you why not though. Many, many security guards will never arrest someone: no need for a handcuffing class. Not all will carry a baton, and certification is not required to carry a baton or OC.

Many cops will never ever shoot anyone but they are still required to carry a gun and once a year qualify with it. Some will never arrest anyone but they still carry cuffs.

Truth is a lot of company's hire security guards to pick up trash and hand out newspapers. None of these company's are really concerned about security, they just want cheap labor.

So now you are going to tell a 10 year LE veteren about LE work? You do understand that LEO's are required by law to apprehend and pursue lawbreakers, and most, if not all, face potentially deadly force situations regularly? I have NEVER met a cop who never arrested anyone. Your statement about that is goofy.

I have also NEVER seen a client hire a guard company hire a guard service to only "pick up trash and hand out newspapers". I suspect you seriously misunderstand this business.

So now you are going to tell a 10 year LE veteren about LE work? You do understand that LEO's are required by law to apprehend and pursue lawbreakers, and most, if not all, face potentially deadly force situations regularly? I have NEVER met a cop who never arrested anyone. Your statement about that is goofy.

No I'm not trying to tell you anything. I'm just conveying my thoughts as you are.

I have also NEVER seen a client hire a guard company hire a guard service to only "pick up trash and hand out newspapers". I suspect you seriously misunderstand this business.

Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've heard countless stories from people who have to do that sort of thing in their security jobs. If it wasn't for my boss i would be out picking up garbage everyday where I work. Not everyone lives in your world TX. You make some great posts here. Your great at cutting and pasting the law but that doesn't always answer the questions because the law is always open to interpretation.

I disagree with you, period. If thats how YOU see security, which is your chosen occupation, then that is something you will have to deal with.

People live in the world they create; mine probably IS different from yours.

And yeah, I am only good for cut and paste. I wish I had your ability to interpret.

[txinvestigator]

Jailors (dentention officers) at least in Harris County undergo substatially more training then forty hours. As of November of last year training was 4 weeks - three weeks classroom and one week as a trainee in the jail.

Security personnel vary greatly in quality, some companies make a real effort to hire personnel with a professional attitude others will take anyone who can squeak through the backround check. Unfortunately the salary level hinders the acquisition of quality personnel.

I am sure, and the posts here seem to confirm, that there is a great variance in the quality of instruction from one facility to the next. This is apparent in CHL training as well. Some instructors are there strictly for the money they can earn while others take their responsibility and the subject matter very seriously.

Dave B.

Another fine post made with an open mind.

Open mind = "agrees with me"...

Bauerdj, the pay issue IS a large factor. The attitude of managment and ownership plays a large role too. And of course, clients not willing to pay an hourly rate high enough to allow the guard cimpany to pay a high enough wage to be able to hire quality people.

I know companies who hiire people using the mirror test. If the person has a reflection and fogs the mirror when placed under the nose, he is hired. :)

I do an entire hour on this subject when I teach.

[one eyed fatman]

I know companies who hiire people using the mirror test. If the person has a reflection and fogs the mirror when placed under the nose, he is hired.

That's just what the company I trained with does. That's why I wouldn't fill out one of their applications. I used them to get my license then got as far away from them as possible. I'm with a good company now but I know I can get better pay elsewhere. I've been invited to apply with a company tomorrow that will not only pay more but also gives pay raises. I know of one place who pays more but I'm afraid it could set me up for a lawsuit. School systems do weird things these days and somebody in Washington wants to cut off funding to schools for security so that's probably not a good place for me to go.

[one eyed fatman]

I have some questions about CHL holders who are also either commissioned or no commissioned security guards. Several I think I know the answer on but would like to get input from someone like txinvestigator who is more knowledgeable.

1. Can a CHL holder who is a NON-COMMISSIONED security guard have a concealed firearm in his possession for his personal protection while working?

2. Can a CHL holder who is a NON-COMMISSIONED security guard carry a concealed firearm while going too or from work IF HE IS IN A SECURITY GUARD UNIFORM?

3. For a CHL holder who is a COMMISSIONED security guard traveling to or from work IN UNIFORM - does he carry concealed under the CHL, Open carry under the Security commission or does he have the choice.

Dave B

Check out 1702 of the Texas occupations code.

Here's the website:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/oc.toc.htm

1: No. NON-COMMISSIONED and commissioned officer cannot carry concealed while on the job. The pistol must be carried openly and only by a commissioned officer.

2: No. Not on yourself. But you can carry it in your auto.

3: You cannot carry concealed in uniform to and from work or at work concealed on your body. But you can carry concealed in your auto.

At least this is what I get out of 1702. Check it out for yourself and tell me what you think.

[bauerdj]

1: No. NON-COMMISSIONED and commissioned officer cannot carry concealed while on the job. The pistol must be carried openly and only by a commissioned officer.


I think we all agree on this one.

2: No. Not on yourself. But you can carry it in your auto.

Seems to be a gray area, to be safe change the shirt and avoid a problem.

3: You cannot carry concealed in uniform to and from work or at work concealed on your body. But you can carry concealed in your auto.

Same answer as 2.

At least this is what I get out of 1702. Check it out for yourself and tell me what you think.

[one eyed fatman]

Sorry about the repeat. If you read 1702 there's a lot of repeat there too. Anyway 1702 is the best answers you or I will get without going to court.

Kind of strange the way it reads. There are licensee's, registers, commissioned officers, etc, etc. On the back of my card it say's I am licensed but in 1702 it does not mention that.

[txinvestigator]

Sorry about the repeat. If you read 1702 there's a lot of repeat there too. Anyway 1702 is the best answers you or I will get without going to court.

Kind of strange the way it reads. There are licensee's, registers, commissioned officers, etc, etc. On the back of my card it say's I am licensed but in 1702 it does not mention that.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have regarding TOC, 1702

In Reality, one must look at TOC 1702.161, 1702.1675, 1702.1685, and specifically 1702.169, which states,

Sec.1702.169. FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.A commissioned
security officer may not carry a firearm unless:
(1)the security officer is:
(A)engaged in the performance of duties as a
security officer; or
(B)traveling directly to or from the place of
assignment;
(2)the security officer wears a distinctive uniform
indicating that the individual is a security officer; and
(3)the firearm is in plain view

The restrictions also exist in the Penal Code;



§46.02. Unlawful carrying weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.




§46.15. Nonapplicability.

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:


Text
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(C) the weapon is in plain view;

[one eyed fatman]

I don't have any questions right now but your good at helping as much as possible. That bauerdj sure did throw of a ringer of a question out there when he combined CHL, non com and commisioned officers. Ill be sure and give you a yell if I have any questions. Thanks.

[KD5NRH]

Truth is a lot of company's hire security guards to pick up trash and hand out newspapers. None of these company's are really concerned about security, they just want cheap labor.

Never seen that, but the one that gets me is that at both of the sites I work, we are after-hours receptionists, too. I'm not sure how much of a visible deterrent I can be when I have to spend a good bit of the time with a phone stuck to my ear and either taking notes, or flipping through a directory trying to find someone to route the call to, but I know I can't observe very effectively with both my eyes and ears occupied. One site even has us forward the phones to a cell phone and carry it on rounds. (Carrying both a distraction and a noisemaker when I prefer to choose when to announce my presence toa potential troublemaker strikes me as a heck of a liability.)

Obviously, we need a phone, and an outside number to reach us at (so folks can call ahead and let us know who will be coming to the site, etc.) but forwarding the main line to us is a big detriment to our primary duties, and I really wish our company could be persuaded to discourage, if not outright forbid, using security officers as anything other than security.