Can anyone find the problems in these policies?

[Locksmith]

No longer valid

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Wow I did not get halfway through and can count multiple errors. Is this what they are teaching LEOs in training?

[srothstein]

No, that is not for training, but the policy concerning the actual on duty behavior of the college police.

And it has several legal errors. I wonder if they had their legal staff review the policy before implementing it. A few of what at first appear as errors are really just the way policies are written. For example, the policy says posting a sign and does not need to specify what the sign has. This way the policy does not need to get changed when the law requiring specific wording changes.

But think of the good news in the policy also. I like the fact that they tell officers to never rely on just a sign, but to get a manager or owner to give a verbal warning to. This means the CHL would have a chance to leave when the verbal is given.

[seamusTX]

This is completely wrong:

A concealed handgun license issued by another state does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in this state. The out-of-state concealed handgun license only reduces the eligibility requirements and fees for applying for a Texas concealed handgun license.

Only after the first time:

C. The failure or refusal to display a concealed handgun license and identification by a person carrying a concealed handgun on demand of a peace Officer is a Class B Misdemeanor.

Obsolete or incomplete:

e. In an amusement park;
f. On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship; or
g. At any meeting of a governmental entity.

Could these places possibly be within the jurisdiction of school police?

B. Concealed handgun license holders who are carrying handguns on public or private premises where an employer has asked the license holders to leave, as listed in Subsection .16 B, shall be advised:
1. They are in violation of the Criminal Trespass statutes and to leave the premises; and
2. Subject to an arrest for Criminal Trespass if the license holder refuses to leave the premises.

The links here refer to 30.05, not 30.06:

I don't know why a college police force would be dealing with 30.06 or other signs on private property.

This one seems downright illegal, bottom of page 7, top of page 8:

5. In unusual situations (e.g., an extremely irate or irrational subject) the Officer may even deem it appropriate to place the weapon in the property room and complete a Information Report and property receipt, as long as the reason for safety concerns can be articulated.

I would think that a person who is "extremely irate or irrational" really ought to be arrested.

- Jim

[srothstein]

5. In unusual situations (e.g., an extremely irate or irrational subject) the Officer may even deem it appropriate to place the weapon in the property room and complete a Information Report and property receipt, as long as the reason for safety concerns can be articulated.

I would think that a person who is "extremely irate or irrational" really ought to be arrested.

- Jim

What would you charge him with? There is no legal requirement to be calm or rational (or we would not have politicians).

Seriously, this is long standing practice under the police role of caretaker for society. Courts have long upheld preventing a crime by taking the weapon until the person can calm down. It is most commonly done during a family disturbance type call when both sides refuse to leave the house and no crime has yet been committed (and the officer knows he will be back later that night anyway).

As for the question about private property, remember that the officers are officers everywhere in Texas. They can be patrolling the streets, especially as they go between campuses. They can respond to assist another officer from another agency or they can work an off duty job. Their rules apply to them all the time too.

[Fangs]

C. An Officer stopping or detaining a concealed handgun license holder may disarm the license holder if:
1. The Officer reasonably believes it is necessary to disarm the license holder for the protection of the Officer, license holder, or other persons:
2. The reasonable belief is listed in the Officer's written report; and
3. The handgun is returned to the license holder once the Officer determines the license holder is not a threat and is not being arrested for a criminal violation.

I like that one.

[boomerang]

I started counting but ran out of fingers.

Good thing "concealed means concealed" as they say.

[seamusTX]

What would you charge him with? There is no legal requirement to be calm or rational ...

Seriously, this is long standing practice under the police role of caretaker for society. Courts have long upheld preventing a crime by taking the weapon until the person can calm down. It is most commonly done during a family disturbance type call when both sides refuse to leave the house and no crime has yet been committed (and the officer knows he will be back later that night anyway).

I am not aware of appeals rulings. As I have written many times, I do not have access to that information in any readily searchable form like Lexis. That stuff costs money.

I know by general knowledge and experience that when someone is acting like a nut, he can be taken in for a psych workup. If he is threatening specific people, he can be arrested for assault, terroristic threat, or disorderly conduct.

I know from personal experience that anyone can be arrested for disorderly conduct and released the next day with advice not to do that again.

That would seem to be a better course of action than letting said hothead loose, where he might retrieve another firearm, knife, chain saw, etc., and wreak mayhem somewhere.

As for the question about private property, remember that the officers are officers everywhere in Texas. They can be patrolling the streets, especially as they go between campuses. They can respond to assist another officer from another agency or they can work an off duty job. Their rules apply to them all the time too.

Are you saying that Alamo Community College Police have jurisdiction outside of San Antonio or Bexar County?

I am really in the dark about this topic.

- Jim

[CopOnce]

Are you saying that Alamo Community College Police have jurisdiction outside of San Antonio or Bexar County?

I am really in the dark about this topic.

In Texas, a licensed Peace Officer is just that, a Texas Peace Officer and their powers of arrest exist throughout the state although, most departments would frown on their officers running around the state executing that right.

When ever I went into a different bailiwick I would always inform the particular agency of my intent. I never had any problems with other departments doing this.

[pt145ss]

Are you saying that Alamo Community College Police have jurisdiction outside of San Antonio or Bexar County?

I am really in the dark about this topic.

In Texas, a licensed Peace Officer is just that, a Texas Peace Officer and their powers of arrest exist throughout the state although, most departments would frown on their officers running around the state executing that right.

When ever I went into a different bailiwick I would always inform the particular agency of my intent. I never had any problems with other departments doing this.

I will need to take the time to find the code again, and it is possible that I did not understand the code, but I believe Texas Code does limit a Peace Officers ability to make warrantless arrest outside their jurisdiction.

[pt145ss]

Code of criminal procedure. Chapter 14

14.03…
(d) A peace officer who is outside his jurisdiction may arrest, without warrant, a person who commits an offense within the officer's presence or view, if the offense is a felony, a violation of Chapter 42 or 49, Penal Code, or a breach of the peace. A peace officer making an arrest under this subsection shall, as soon as practicable after making the arrest, notify a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction where the arrest was made. The law enforcement agency shall then take custody of the person committing the offense and take the person before a magistrate in compliance with Article 14.06 of this code.
…

I could be wrong but I understand this to mean that a peace officer outside his/her jurisdiction cannot execute a warrantless arrest except if a felony was committed within his/her view…Therefore, excluding warrantless misdemeanor arrests.

[seamusTX]

Tthe law is Code of Criminal Procedure Chapter 14.01-03. However, it appears to me to contain conflicting clauses. Some say an officer "may arrest" without limitation, and others limit the officer's power to arrest outside his jurisdiction to certain offenses (mostly felonies and domestic violence).

Any person may arrest for a felony committed within view (though it may not always be the best course of action).

- Jim

P.S.: I somehow did not see PT145ss's response when I posted this.

[pedalman]

And it has several legal errors. I wonder if they had their legal staff review the policy before implementing it. A few of what at first appear as errors are really just the way policies are written. For example, the policy says posting a sign and does not need to specify what the sign has. This way the policy does not need to get changed when the law requiring specific wording changes.

As an employee of a community college, I can assure you that no legal staff reviewed this before publication. Community colleges have a habit of throwing things on the wall, just to see if they stick. My employer's Web site still refers to an improper citation of the law concerning concealed weapons on College premises. They seem to think that TPC 46.05(a) is a catch-all to prohibit any and all weapons.

I'm not even a paralegal, and I know this is wrong. The odds are that the ACCD President told his staff to cobble up a policy for Campus Police in dealing with CHL holders, and the Executive Administrative Assistant threw it together.

[CopOnce]

Code of criminal procedure. Chapter 14

14.03…
(d) A peace officer who is outside his jurisdiction may arrest, without warrant, a person who commits an offense within the officer's presence or view, if the offense is a felony, a violation of Chapter 42 or 49, Penal Code, or a breach of the peace. A peace officer making an arrest under this subsection shall, as soon as practicable after making the arrest, notify a law enforcement agency having jurisdiction where the arrest was made. The law enforcement agency shall then take custody of the person committing the offense and take the person before a magistrate in compliance with Article 14.06 of this code.
…

I could be wrong but I understand this to mean that a peace officer outside his/her jurisdiction cannot execute a warrantless arrest except if a felony was committed within his/her view…Therefore, excluding warrantless misdemeanor arrests.

You are correct about the Felony warrantless arrest by a peace officer outside his/her jurisdiction, but there are breach of the peace misdemeanors also. If a peace officer wants to get involved in misdemeanor arrests outside his/her jurisdiction, they better be walking on egg shells.

Personally, as a peace officer getting involved in a misdemeanor arrest outside my jurisdiction wouldn't really happen.

[AFJailor]

This error caught my eye...

"B. A concealed handgun license issued by another state does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in this state. The out-of-state concealed handgun license only reduces the eligibility requirements and fees for applying for a Texas concealed handgun license."

This is completely incorrect, I really wonder where they even got their information?

I have my North Dakota CCL and carry in Texas all the time.