Question on a shooting

[Rayden]

Some of you may know, this happened Friday night in Houston. My question is: If it was a CHL holder instead of the Customs agent, would he/she have to warn the robber to drop the gun, or would it be justified to shoot and kill on the front or back without any warning? According to the Houston Chronicle:

An off-duty customs agent shopping at a west Houston liquor store shot and killed a man who attempted to rob the store Friday night, police said.

The man, who has not yet been identified by police, approached the front counter of Spec’s Town and Country, at 12901 Queensbury around 7:30 p.m., pulled out a gun and ordered customers to the floor.

“The agent pulled out his weapon and ordered the suspect to drop his weapon,” Houston police spokesman Gabriel Ortiz said.

“The suspect ignored that order and pointed his weapon at the agent,” he continued. “It was at that point that the agent, obviously fearing for his life, shot the suspect.”

Seconds after that shooting, a second man fired at the agent from the liquor store’s front door and fled, Ortiz said. The gunman remains a fugitive.

None of the shoppers or employees was injured, Ortiz said.

“Not your normal night at the liquor store,” Ortiz said.

After the shooting, at least a dozen federal agents and an equal number of Houston police officers descended on the store, which is along an access road near the intersection of the Katy Freeway and the Sam Houston Tollway.

The border patrol agent was wearing his uniform T-shirt and pants but also had on a civilian windbreaker at the time of the shooting, according to the agency. He was authorized, but not required, to carry a weapon when off duty.

Out of concern for the safety of the agent and his family, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would not release his name or details about where he works.

“It was fortunate that the officer was able to assist, and protect the lives of those who were in the store,” said Yolanda Choates, a spokeswoman for the agency in Houston.

“As long as there is a second assailant out there, we are reluctant to release anything identifying (the agent),” she said.

The agent has been with department for five years, and as a field inspector, his job entails working at seaports and airports, she said.

Lindy Rydman, whose parents founded Spec’s Liquor in 1962, declined to comment.

“We are very happy and thankful that our people are safe,” Rydman said in a brief e-mail.

The liquor store was back in business Saturday afternoon. A few employees quietly discussed the shooting.

dane.schiller@chron.com

[boomerang]

There's no requirement for me to give a criminal who is threatening people with deadly force an opportunity to surrender, nor to give him the opportunity to shoot first. I don't know what requirements the CBP agent has off duty, but he may have defaulted to his training.

[Stupid]

"Out of concern for the safety of the agent and his family, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would not release his name or details about where he works."

So if it were a civilian, it's perfect fine to ignore the safety of the said person and his/her family and disclose everything except his/her SSN? What has the world come to?

[Morgan]

"Out of concern for the safety of the agent and his family, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would not release his name or details about where he works."

So if it were a civilian, it's perfect fine to ignore the safety of the said person and his/her family and disclose everything except his/her SSN? What has the world come to?

This is what we call a non sequitur. They didn't say ANYTHING that should make you assume what you're assuming.

[bdickens]

After the shooting, at least a dozen federal agents and an equal number of Houston police officers descended on the store, which is along an access road near the intersection of the Katy Freeway and the Sam Houston Tollway.

I can walk to that store.

[WillieD]

f it was a CHL holder instead of the Customs agent, would he/she have to warn the robber to drop the gun, or would it be justified to shoot and stop the threat on the front or back without any warning?

Yes

[KRM45]

"Out of concern for the safety of the agent and his family, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would not release his name or details about where he works."

So if it were a civilian, it's perfect fine to ignore the safety of the said person and his/her family and disclose everything except his/her SSN? What has the world come to?

Look at who the quote is from. The Huston PD would be the investigating agency. If you want to know file an open records request.

[casingpoint]

would it be justified to shoot and kill on the front or back without any warning

That's what the FBI thinks. Works for me.

[Captain Matt]

"Out of concern for the safety of the agent and his family, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials would not release his name or details about where he works."

So if it were a civilian, it's perfect fine to ignore the safety of the said person and his/her family and disclose everything except his/her SSN? What has the world come to?

This is what we call a non sequitur. They didn't say ANYTHING that should make you assume what you're assuming.

Maybe not but what about Joe Horn? They didn't hesitate to publish his name and details about where he works or lives.

[Rayden]

Nice to know no warning is needed.

[shootthesheet]

There is no requirement. Doing so only puts anyone who does so in unnecessary danger in my opinion. Since we are not required to it gives us the opportunity to pull and fire with surprise and that, in my opinion, increases our ability to not only survive a confrontation but get thru it without injury. "Fair" is for children on a playground. Any confrontation is life and death so using any advantage, to include sneaking up on a BG and shooting them in the back is "fair". A CHL holder is not required to know the intent of any person that causes the proper use of deadly force. That means, if they have a weapon then they are a direct threat to innocent life and all legal means are on the table. Think outside of social pleasantries because anyone willing to pick-up a weapon is willing to use it. There is also the consideration of legal fees and trouble that balance any given use of force or deadly force to keep in mind. That is my opinion and I am no lawyer. I just know how I look to deal with any given situation.

[casingpoint]

anyone willing to pick-up a weapon is willing to use it

That is becoming more and more of a given these days in armed robberies.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... 0388.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/ ... icide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[skennedy]

“Not your normal night at the liquor store,” Ortiz said.

I bet in Houston it is !!!

[casingpoint]

Random, senseless juvenile crime the FBI is referring to, this time closer to home:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 41759.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It easy to see where they get that saying, "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

[E10]

Seconds after that shooting, a second man fired at the agent from the liquor store’s front door and fled, Ortiz said.

Remember that robbers and other BGs often arrange for backup. Our friendly neighborhood Border Patrolman was lucky. A lesson for the rest of us, if we ever find ourselves in a similar situation - watch out for the backup.