Rubber or Beanbag ammo for a HD Shotgun

[arod757]

I was contemplating getting some rubber buckshot or beanbag ammo for my 12 gauge HD shotty. The reason for this is simply to stop a threat in my home without actually having to kill the idiot. Frankly, I don't want to have to deal with the aftermath of killing someone, even if I'm in the right, and I don't want to have to clean up the mess in the house if this were to happen and I put a round a 00 buckshot into them.

Now, I don't really know anything realistic about this type of non-lethal shot. It looks great on TV, but we all know how that goes. Anyone got any real experience with this, and do you think it would be an effective way to stop a threat in the home? If there are multiple intruders, do you think this stuff could knock them all down and keep them down, at least with the threat of giving them another round if they try and get back up?

Anyway, just thought it might be a good conversation to get started.

[Mike1951]

I believe the proper term is less-lethal, since under the right circumstances use of these could prove fatal.

Either you have the right to shoot or not. I won't be fooling around with this kind of gadget.

[arod757]

You're right about the "less-lethal." Got mixed up.

But why wouldn't you mess around with it? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'd just like to know the reasoning behind your opinion.

[stroo]

Because you stand a good chance of not stopping the intruder with it.

[flb_78]

If I were to use "less than lethal" ammo, I'd have the first 2 shots as the specialty ammo and the other 6 shots as low recoil buckshot.

I think the beanbag would probably be better then rubber.

[fickman]

The situation is sticky because, by definition, using a shotgun is deadly force. Even if you have less-lethal ammunition (which, as stated, can still be deadly), you are using deadly force. You possibly open yourself up to being questioned - why did you use deadly force (a shotgun) if you felt that deadly force wasn't needed (evidenced by the less-lethal ammunition). It's not quite as murky since you're in your home. . . where you have a lot more latitude on defending yourself and your family, but it could happen. Stranger things certainly have.

The other issue is that you don't know the motivation or state of your attacker. S/He could be on PCP, meth, and crack and disoriented or enraged; a gang member looking for an initiation killing; or a clear-headed and college-educated individual intent on pilfering a few of your dry goods because the economy is bad. You won't have time to find out when your home is being invaded. Read the story posted a few weeks ago about the officer who hit a guy more than 15 times in center mass and the perpetrator lived for over four minutes, continuing to shoot at the officer. When you're trying to "stop the threat", you want the best odds possible.

I would even discourage people from doing the escalating ammunition strategy. A lot of people advocate it for their HD shotguns, but nobody seems to do it in their CCW. Why not load a blank, a rubber bullet, a FMJ, then a hollow-point? There are several good answers, but the biggest is that you may not be alive to get to the hollow-points.

I agree it would suck to kill somebody - no matter how justified you are. The mess would be terrible. The emotional baggage will be significant. I'd spend a lot of time in prayer and talking with my pastors after something like that. I probably wouldn't sleep well for a long time. To me, it is a last resort. . . but having somebody invade my house and threaten my family or me immediately jumps me to the last resort. If I had to do it, I'd probably spend money to hire a professional cleaning crew and would have my family spend some time in a hotel, at my parents, or at my in-laws house. Hopefully this isn't something that's going to ever happen - and if it does - hopefully it doesn't happen more than once. Regardless, I want to be fully prepared to have maximum effectiveness in the event that I ever do have to take action.

Just a few of my initial thoughts. . .

[jbirds1210]

The one thing that every human (even drug crazed) has in common is that enough blood loss will stop any action.

Jason

[arod757]

Good points on the state of the intruder. I'm thinking I'll pass on the less-lethal option myself. The more I think about, the more it doesn't sound like a good idea. Thanks for your comments.

[ac-mech]

when the intruder is coming at you, i bet you he's not going to have rubber bullets or beanbags in his gun..

[srothstein]

I do not have the philosophical objection to your using less-lethal ammo in your HD shotgun (or your carry weapon) if you desire. In fact, I find the desire to end the threat without killing to be admirable. I do not subscribe to the theory, but I have been called a neandethal and worse on my attitude for those situations.

I do recommend against it for a different reason though. If you figure the average in home distance, you will find that the rubber balls or bean bag would still be lethal. Most of the rounds I have seen for police use say to not use them within 15 or 20 feet. The muzzle velocity is too great. As one example, remember the woman killed in Boston in 2004 by getting hit in the head from a pepper ball round?

It has happened with bean bags and rubber shotgun rounds also.

Now, if there is a little greater distance, I really like the new Taser XREP round.
http://www.taser.com/PRODUCTS/LAW/Pages/XREP.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BobCat]

I do apologize in advance for the levity, but the image of a flock of rubber balls ricocheting around the room after some of them miss the intruder has me choking back laughter.

Do you remember a child's toy called a "Superball"? I think they are now known as Hi-bounce balls. I buy them for my cats, who attack them furiously. Before they disappear forever under the refrigerator, they bounce around the room quite energetically - don't want to be hit in the eye with one.

If ever faced with a potentially lethal confrontation, I will wish to end the danger expeditiously and immediately. Mercy is wonderful but survival is better. Less-lethal ammunition is a nice thought, but Federal "tactical" (reduced recoil) buck gets my vote.

Regards,
Andrew

[dukalmighty]

You could put your eye out

[stevie_d_64]

I do not kill...I stop...

Therefore anything less than 0h-0h, is a no-no...

If anyone enters your house, in a manner less than invited thru a door, opened by you...9 out of 10 dentists would agree that they are not there for tea...