What do you do when.......? #1

[CWOOD]

I asked Charles where this might best fit and he suggested here.

I am sure some of you fine folks have your own set of proceedures for when things go the heck in a handbasket. These are pre-planned steps you take to counter hostile threats or action. There is so much experience here that I thought others might benefit from that experience and see if the ideas might be effectivly modified or adjusted to fit their individual circumstance.

To start it off I will offer, as an example, something my wife and I have worked out in our household.

The origin of this is the well documented fact that one should never allow an assailant to take a subject to a secondary location of his choice. The secondary crime scene is almost always more bloody and deadly than the primary one.

My wife does not carry. She is not against guns, and she is acutally a pretty good shot and owns S&W Model 10 2" and likes my little EG Makarov. She is just not personally interested in shooting and doesn't like the noise. All that is to explain that in the following scenerio I would be the primary actor, but in many situations either spouse or S/O could act according to the situation.

The scenerio is that my wife and I are walking in some public area with our situational awareness perhaps not at a level it should be and are set upon by bad guys. Their intent is to grab and threaten my wife to :
a. force me to hand over valuables
b. force us into their vehicle to go to our home, ATM, our vehicle to steal from us
c. force is into a vehicle to kidnap us for an, as yet, unknown reason
d. drag her into the darkness for rape or worse
e. something I haven't even imagined.

Generally there may be one assailant who is holding the wife as a shield with one hand and holding some sort of weapon with the other. There may be other BG's who may or may not be armed but the primary threat at this time is the BG holding my wife and trying to haul her off. WHAT TO DO?

Realizing that there may not be time to wait for an oppotunity, we have a plan to create one. My wife and I have decided to use a code word, a word that would be instantly recognizable, never used in any other circumstance, and a word which would not attract attention. It is a sort of a personal nickname in our case. (As in "Don't worry dear, everything will be OK") Upon my use of that code word my wife will become dead weight and drop to the floor as if in a faint or cardiac arrest. This will provide a short interval of diversion and she knows that at that time I will draw and fire, so her being down has the additional benefit of clearing a line of fire. Mozambique time...just like in the drill. If there are other threats to deal with I will have already made my plan for those but I WILL deal with the guy holding my wife.

It is not a perfect plan. There is risk of injury by the assailant. There is risk of a poorly aimed shot from me. There is risk from the other assailants, if any. However, it will be a circumstance when there are not ANY perfect options. We practice the word, in private, as a means of remembering it. She doesn't drop to the floor or anything, just acknowleges that she has the thought in mind.

Anyway, that is what I will do when.....

I would welcome constructive suggestions on our plan.

I would also welcome the opportunity to learn from YOUR plans that might cover other circumstances.

I hope that this is food for thought.

Perhaps if there is enough interest, there might be a need for a stand alone heading. But for now, let's just see how it goes.

[dac1842]

The fact you at least have plan is better than most. The next thing is practice it, practice it and practice it. Merely talking will not work, go through the motions and do it a bunch, the more you practice it , the greather the odds are that you will suceed.

First, make sure you have the mindset you are willing to take a life. Not just threaten it. Carrying a gun is useless if you not resigned to using it. Second, make sure you know the weapon, and know it well. If you carry a semi auto, make sure you know how to clear jam without thinking about it. Hesitation kills.

Make sure you and the wife know just when she is to duck or whatever your plan is. This includes doing it the same way every time. Any variation could cause hesitation, when practicing a code word, is she to drop on first sound of word or completion of the word? Sounds minial, but even a split second can make a difference. If she is thinking completion of the word and you are thinking first sound, you just blew her head off.
When I was an LEO our shift practiced this very thing in case of a hostage situation with one of our officers. The one being held hostage would drop on first sound of the word gun.

One more thing, take a silohoutte target to the range. Put a picture over half the head of the silohoutte and practice a head shot with only the portion that is visible. If you hit the picture, you have just killed your wife...

[CWOOD]

In regard to the use of the weapon, I shoot a lot of IDPA. I realize that it is a game and not training, but it is a game with which one can hone certain gun handling skills. I shoot IDPA with a Glock 30, which is my carry weapon and with my IWB holster which is how I carry it all the time. This is not a rig which one would chose to really just play the game. I started IDPA to improve my skills and it has really helped in that area. Much better than ANY activity I practiced when I was a LEO...State Trooper here in Texas. I have been doing this for several years and feel very comfortable with that aspect.

As for the mindset to take a life...would be drawing to EXECUTE a Mozambique...not threaten one.

As for the suggestions on the refinement of recognizing and acting upon the code word, you suggestions are excellent! We will address that. We will probably do the informal thing too, but you have really put your finger on a great point.

Thank you so much for you input dac1842. That is exactly what I was hoping for.

Perhaps you could share some plan or strategy from your experience.


Anyone else?

[LaserTex]

WOW! I am retired military and I didn't think of that. Thanks for posting. Great thing to talk to wife about. She still thinks that I just nuts because I want to carry. She sees the birds, and butterflies, and squirrels and doesn;t quite understand that desperate people will do desperate things. She is starting to "get it" as everytime we are out I stop at Academy, WalMart or Bass pro and look for ammo.

She is an awesome shot with her .38 SW Chief's Special Airlight and the .44 Black Powder I got her for Christmas....but she still thinks it is a hobby...like gardening or needlepoint...although more expensive.

Doug

[srothstein]

Here is one other tactical suggestion. Depending on the number of bad guys and their weapons, the primary threat may NOT be the BG with your wife. If she jumped into him (for instance jumped backwards when he is behind her holding or dragging her) instead of just dropping, she could knock him off balance and maybe to the ground. This could give you time to deal with a different person who may be a higher priority threat.

One example might be to consider this type of action if you are walking with a third person who is not part of the plan. Your wife handling her attacker enough to give you a second to get the other person safe and then her might work. You might need two code words, and it might make the plan too complicated, so I am not sure if this is good advice or not. I am just running a few options through my head after reading your plan to see what I came up with.

And even having such a plan is a great start.

[ClarkLZeuss]

My wife and I have decided to use a code word, a word that would be instantly recognizable, never used in any other circumstance, and a word which would not attract attention. It is a sort of a personal nickname in our case. (As in "Don't worry dear, everything will be OK") Upon my use of that code word my wife will become dead weight and drop to the floor as if in a faint or cardiac arrest. This will provide a short interval of diversion and she knows that at that time I will draw and fire, so her being down has the additional benefit of clearing a line of fire.

I think this is excellent, having a code word which is coupled with a specific action plan. My wife and I have a code word in Japanese, but the main resultant action is heightened caution. Like if we're at a gas station, and a suspicious person walks up and gets too close for comfort, I'll say "Japanese Word!" to alert my wife to possible danger. But I hadn't thought of what she's supposed to do after that, like take our daughter and run, or get into the car and lock the doors, etc. Your post is really helping me think through the need to plan with specifics. Thanks!

The one obstacle, at least with my beloved wife, is that she gets very anxious talking about different danger scenarios, and I respect that she is the "weaker vessel" in this sense...it's more taxing on her sense of security to imagine the worst. I'm curious how this part of the planning went with your wife? With mine, I think what I might do is just hash out a few different plans all by myself, and give her only the "need-to-know" stuff. I want to be able to prepare her without freaking her out!

[Excaliber]

My wife and I have a couple of code words we use for different situations.

One is used when a potential threat is identified but has not committed to action, e.g., detecting a pair of loiterers who get up and start approaching us in a parking lot. The code word is used to alert the other, the threat position is called out with a clock position and distance, and we each go on alert in our designated areas of observational responsibility. I have from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock, and my wife has 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock as we decide on a course of action and adapt to the circumstances.

The other would be used if I made the determination that engaging one or more armed individuals was necessary. My wife's instructions are to either drop to the floor, take nearby solid cover, or run away at a 90 degree angle to the threat. We discuss which option is best in different circumstances as we go about our business so the best choice can be made without hesitation. My part of the plan is to move rapidly away from her as I begin the engagement because as soon as the BG's recognize what's happening, they will give me their full attention and cut loose with whatever they have. At that point anywhere close to me would not be a good place to be. This tactic allows me to move rapidly and freely without the major complication of trying to keep another person moving with me and behind cover, and offers a reasonable chance for both a successful escape for my wife and survival for me.

[dmac]

If an assailent grabbed my wife like that I would laugh, say "good luck with her" and I would run away smiling....

just kidding of course...but i couldn't resist

[CainA]

If an assailent grabbed my wife like that I would laugh, say "good luck with her" and I would run away smiling....

just kidding of course...but i couldn't resist

That's funny. My wife says, if she was ever kidnapped, the kidnappers would bring her back home.

All kidding aside, I think the "Code Word" idea is pretty clever, maybe not original, but clever nevertheless.

-Cain

[Keith B]

If an assailent grabbed my wife like that I would laugh, say "good luck with her" and I would run away smiling....

just kidding of course...but i couldn't resist

That's funny. My wife says, if she was ever kidnapped, the kidnappers would bring her back home.
All kidding aside, I think the "Code Word" idea is pretty clever, maybe not original, but clever nevertheless.

-Cain

Yeah, mine too. Maybe then I could tell them I wanted a ransom to take her back!!

In all seriousness and to get back on topic, we have our code words too. Good idea to at least have a base plan to work from.

[KD5NRH]

Generally there may be one assailant who is holding the wife as a shield with one hand and holding some sort of weapon with the other. There may be other BG's who may or may not be armed but the primary threat at this time is the BG holding my wife and trying to haul her off. WHAT TO DO?

Shoot the others and say "Now don't you wish you'd listened to me about carrying a gun?"

Be sure to pistol whip her unconscious before she can hit you with the arm she ripped off the BG right after you said that, though.

[Captain Matt]

It's good you have these discussions with her even if she won't carry a gun. Have you asked what she would do if she's grocery shopping without you?