Massacre, hostage-taking in New York

[surprise_i'm_armed]

The Saturday, 4/4/09 edition of the Dallas Morning News stated that the
shooter had a "New York pistol license" and that the police verified that the
2 pistols used, a 9mm Beretta and a .45 Beretta, were linked with that
license.

What was unclear from this description was whether this "license" was a
CHL equivalent, or just some sort of registration for home possession.

[magicglock]

While all the conversation and attention paid to the police response is relevant, I think this only detracts from the real issue. I wish more people would focus on two aspects of this event.
- An individual with the intent to harm others will do so by any means available. This BG happen to use a firearm but could just as easily been an explosive, knife, baseball bat, car, etc. The issue is not a gun related issue, it is an issue related to a person with the intent to do harm to others. Why must we focus on the method and not the intent?
- When a person with the intent to do harm to others commits this type of act, what is the most effective means of stopping the violence regardless of the method? That is where the police and armed citizens are the most effective. (Emphasis on armed citizens)

More importantly, how do we as a CHL community promote the cause and debunk the myths? It is more than coincidence that these events continue to happen in states that heavily regulate firearms and promote gun free zones.

[boomerang]

More importantly, how do we as a CHL community promote the cause and debunk the myths? It is more than coincidence that these events continue to happen in states that heavily regulate firearms and promote gun free zones.

It's easier to kill victims who can't or won't fight back. That's obvious to most people who think about it rationally.

[magicglock]

If it were that obvious, we wouldn't have the focus we have on gun control. You are correct, if you think rationally about it. My point is that I am frustrated that the pro-gun community fails convince the anti-gun idiots that guns are not the problem. The frustration is that case after case this is the obvious conclusion that is overlooked.

[seamusTX]

The Saturday, 4/4/09 edition of the Dallas Morning News stated that the shooter had a "New York pistol license" ...
What was unclear from this description was whether this "license" was a
CHL equivalent, or just some sort of registration for home possession.

I don't know for sure, but in most northeastern states, you need a license to buy and possess a handgun. (That license is at least as difficult to get as a CHL.)

Licenses to carry in those states are extremely rare. The people who get them have political connections or occasionally are in some high-risk profession such as gem trading.

- An individual with the intent to harm others will do so by any means available. This BG happen to use a firearm but could just as easily been an explosive, knife, baseball bat, car, etc. The issue is not a gun related issue, it is an issue related to a person with the intent to do harm to others. Why must we focus on the method and not the intent?

We, CHL holders and supporters of the right to keep and bear arms, understand that perfectly well.

The reason that I started this thread and I suppose the reasons that others start similar threads is that these mass shooting incidents are inevitably used to rationalize more "gun control."

(You didn't see calls for "car control" after Clara Harris ran over her philandering husband. Those incidents aren't rare either. There is at 50 to 100 attempted or accomplished vehicular homicide a week in the U.S.)

... how do we as a CHL community promote the cause and debunk the myths?

We don't control major media outlets. Even conservative commentators that have big audiences rarely mention the RKBA.

We can write letters to the editor. We can educate people face-to-face when the topic arises. We can support the NRA, which does not affect pubic opinion much but keeps legislators on their toes.

If you can figure out how to call a news conference and get anyone to pay attention to you, go ahead. I don't know how to do it, and neither to the people who run the smaller RKBA organizations.

- Jim

[boomerang]

If it were that obvious, we wouldn't have the focus we have on gun control. You are correct, if you think rationally about it. My point is that I am frustrated that the pro-gun community fails convince the anti-gun idiots that guns are not the problem. The frustration is that case after case this is the obvious conclusion that is overlooked.

Fundamentally it's no different than racism. A 30 second sound bite or a five minute conversation will not often change minds. The effort has to be ongoing. Even so, you're unlikely to convince a fanatic of the truth, whether they're HCI or KKK. The best we can do is constantly struggle for civil rights, win the hearts and minds of the masses, and minimize the influence of hate-filled bigots.

[Chemist45]

I don't know for sure, but in most northeastern states, you need a license to buy and possess a handgun. (That license is at least as difficult to get as a CHL.)

Licenses to carry in those states are extremely rare. The people who get them have political connections or occasionally are in some high-risk profession such as gem trading.

I used to live in NY, so here is the real story:
Outside of NYC, you need a handgun license before you can even touch a handgun. That includes training, test firing, or handling prior to purchase. You must show such a license before the clerk will even take the gun out of the case to show you.
In order to get this license you must be fingerprinted, photographed and have filled out a form that includes three people from your community vouching for you. This information will be sent to the FBI for a background check. You will pay for the fingerprinting, photographs and background check.
Then, a uniformed police officer will make a surprise visit to your home to interview you. You cannot schedule this visit and it must be inside your home. Some departments will repeatedly send an officer on a weekday between 9AM and 4PM when you are certain to be at work. (This is why it took me nearly a year to get my license.)
Once all of this is done, you still have to get a purchase coupon from your local PD to buy a handgun.
The handgun must be taken into the police within 5 business days for registration. At that time, they will add the make, model and serial number of the gun to your license.
If you are caught even holding a handgun that is not on your license (And yes, this includes trying a buddy's gun at a range.) you can lose your permit and your right to own handguns.

In many parts of NY, the handgun permit also serves as a carry permit.

Inside of NYC the rules are very simple: Honest people, who aren't connected, aren't allowed to own handguns.