Why people shoot themselves *Accidently*?

[boomerang]

Why? Because they "accidentally" point the gun at themselves and "accidentally" press the trigger.

[Liberty]

I have a problem with the "....Dropping a loaded HG on the floor from the waist..." part, too. I dropped my Glock from waist high on to my driveway once and nothing happened.

Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it can't happen to someone else. There was a report here several months ago of a member who dropped his Rock Island Armory 1911 and it went off. No one was hurt. But apparently the gun has a weaker firing pin spring and no block on the firing pin. There was another incident where a 1911 went off after slamming against an MRI machine. Ruger just spent a zillion bucks recalling the LCP because it can go off if dropped. It is a pretentous to claim just because you dropped your Glock that it couldn't happen to another person. While I understand that dropping ones Glock is not likely to cause an accidental discharge, it has design features to prevent it. This doesn't mean that it can't happen to an other gun under unusual circumstances. The Rock Island 1911 happened to land on its Muzzle on a concrete floor. It probably could have been dropped a hundred times with out going off. I don't know if or how many times the Ruger LCPs have gone off by being dropped, but I doubt if Ruger would have recalled thousands of handguns if it wasn't a real risk.
While I understand GC's statement that "modern handguns meant for use by military and police are drop-safe" has some merit, CHLers tend to buy guns that are lighter weight and smaller than those intended for LEO and Military purposes. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of one of these small guns going off if dropped. I also think we need to pay attention and understand our guns and the safety features that aare designed into it. Every gun has built into it engineering tradeoffs. Some of these tradeoffs will be safety features. If we don't understand the features and tradeoffs we are more dangerous to our selves and loved ones.

Sometimes accidents really do happen.

[ELB]

Anything man-made is subject to failure under stress, so it would not be correct to say that there's no chance of a modern handgun going off if you drop it. But I am firmly convinced that once the gun is dropped, the likelihood of triggering off an unintended shot by grabbing for it is far greater than just letting it hit the ground. But however you react, you are still responsible for it -- especially if you drop it during administrative handling, like loading it or hitching up your britches in the bathroom stall. The point is focus on control of the gun -- better that you drop your pants than the gun. Not nearly as embarrassing.

[bdickens]

Both of the instances you cite, Liberty, involve defective handguns.

[txmatt]

Both of the instances you cite, Liberty, involve defective handguns.

Any 1911 without a firing pin block (which one could argue is the same as saying any 1911) could potentially discharge with that perfect 1 in a 1000 drop. Some have been made safer with heavier springs and lighter firing pins, but I don't think I would call a standard 1911 with all milspec parts (standard weight firing pin and spring) defective.

[bdickens]

Okay, so one instance is a rash of defective products and the other is a freak mechanical failure.

[srothstein]

Well, on the dropped handgun thing, I have to admit that there is a bigger part of the problem than the gun hitting the floor. Most of the time, a person dropping something will make an instinctive grab for it. When you do this with a pistol, it tends to go bang. This is why this causes so many accidental shootings, more, IMHO, thna the gun hitting the floor and going off (though that has been known to happen also).

[stevie_d_64]

Because only DEA agents are trained well enough not to.

Oh, Wait...........

[pedalman]

Any 1911 without a firing pin block (which one could argue is the same as saying any 1911) could potentially discharge with that perfect 1 in a 1000 drop. Some have been made safer with heavier springs and lighter firing pins, but I don't think I would call a standard 1911 with all milspec parts (standard weight firing pin and spring) defective.

This is precisely why I don't carry my Auto-Ordnance 1911. It is definitely a milspec clone, and does not have a firing pin block.

No, I don't want to sell it. I still like it. And it still makes an excellent "crisis" pistol.

[Liberty]

Both of the instances you cite, Liberty, involve defective handguns.

Almost all accidents involve something happening against the odds. Not just gun accidents, but in general.
I actually mentioned 3 guns 1 was the MRI and it involved tremednous forces and was a very wierd set circumstances. I believe that gun actually was inspected and actually had a firing pin block. THe Magnets though were powerful and picked the gun off the table and slammed the gun into equipment. Not a likely experiance for any of us.
The Rock Island weapon was functional and not broken. The owner apparently did install stiffer springs and perhaps a lighter firing pin after the incident. His weapon was a stock firearm though.
The Rugers were as designed, and manufactured it wasn't that they broke.

while all these incidents were against the odds the fact is that they happened.

As a side note I am always amazed when people deny that their may be a weakness or frailty in their guns. They are mechanical devices their safety features are not perfect. The 1911 isn't the perfect weapon nor is the Glock, Nor is the LPC. When some one comes up with the perfect gun, I will be standing in line to buy it.
Sheesh

[bdickens]

I didn't mean to start an argument. I merely was pointing out that too many people put too much stake in the "dropped gun giong off" scenario.

You are right about the LCP being as designed, but it was a defective design in the first place.

I surely don't reccomend dropping loaded firearms, but there is no reason to live in mortal fear of doing so.

[G.C.Montgomery]

...I have a problem with the last one. While there are exceptions such as older revolvers and a few specialty pistols, modern handguns meant for use by military and police are drop-safe...

Well, ever since they slacked off on making sidearms with lanyard loops I've had to tie my string through the trigger guard so I won't lose my gun when I'm riding my horse and it won't hit the ground and go off. But, I always worry that it's going to get around the trigger and pull it when the string gets hung up on some barbed wire whilst I'm mending fences.

I'm thinking maybe I should drill a hole through the sides of the barrel and run the lanyard through there, but then if I let the gun hang by it it'll probably be pointing up at me, and that seems a little unsafe.

Anybody have better suggestions?

Depending on the gun, you might be able to install an aftermarket lanyard hoop. I think lanyard hoops are a good idea but I don't live/work in evironments that require them.

Now, I realize this is blasphemy but to be honest the original 1911 and 1911A1 barely qualify as modern handguns. I love the 1911 platform and I own more than a few of them. If you are really worried about your 1911 being drop-safe, buy one with a firing-pin block such as that found in the Colt Series 80 guns....Just don't throw it into an MRI.

We have all heard of 1911s falling and going off on impact. I have never seen it but, I've heard of it. It's my opinion that even a standard 1911 that goes off after a fall is out of spec or poorly maintained. I say this because there are no less than 30 different manufacturers making 1911s and many of them simply "reverse engineered" their guns as opposed to working from the original design drawings or military specifications. With the rather generous tolerances of the original design and the wide variance of each manufacturer, it's a wonder anyone manufactures a 1911 that actually works. I promise you more than a few of these guns are out of spec in one way or another and very few people properly maintain these guns. Some manufacturers have short breech faces, long firing-pins and weak springs among other problems. A few thousandths of an inch, here and there will eventually add up to a problem. And then of course there are those constantly "improving" their own guns by swapping or modifying springs.

I don't depend on any number of mechanical safeties to save me from bad luck. However, I'm not going make things worse by trying to catch a falling gun. Better yet, I try to make sure my gun is secure so that it doesn't drop in the first place. I realize stuff happens but when I've seen people lose control of their guns, inattention to their environment and a compromised grip were root causes to the incident. Right now I'm working hard to break a student of a habit of basically tossing the gun around in his strong hand to re-establish his grip after drawing. I've told him over and over again that if he can't establish a firing grip before drawing the gun, then we need to look at his holster or the gun's position on his body. At present, if he doesn't fix this habit, he will evenutally drop his pistol.

YMMV

[tfrazier]

Depending on the gun, you might be able to install an aftermarket lanyard hoop. I think lanyard hoops are a good idea but I don't live/work in evironments that require them....
YMMV

You realize my entire post was intended as a joke...right?

[papabear]

I still think the guy was playing w/ his gun & pulled the trigger on a loaded barrel.

[bryang]

Because only DEA agents are trained well enough not to.

Oh, Wait...........

I liked this one too. I'll never forget that one.

Also, do not become complacent always be aware of the fact you are carrying a deadly weapon and think before you do anything concerning it. We can become to comfortable with our "routine" that we can become careless when handling our pistol, and carrying it, also. Sometimes we can get in to big of a hurry and think we know the safety rules so well that there is no way we will mess up...think!!

Be Safe, Stay Safe, & have fun
-geo