attempted car break in

[dewayneward]

Well, I have had my first post CHL incident. It isnt anything huge, but it has got me thinking (which is half the battle).

Very short "incident", but I was coming out of 50% price books on 377 in Haltom City (fort Worth) with my 2 kids. As we are walking towards our van, a truck alarm goes off (this happened at 4:00pm'ish today...'bout a 1/2 hour ago). Anyway, I go on alert (I carry my 9mm at 8 0'clock --- I'm a lefty) and see a large woman walking away from the vehicle.

My first impulse was to yell "halt" or something equally corny, but both my kids were right there with me and we were in a parking lot and I just stopped as the lady scurried away. After everything looked OK, I got the kids to the van and looked around some more. Turns out the truck/sport utility vehicle had the stupid window down. I did drive around the parking lot a bit but the lady was gone like a fart in the wind. I was shocked at how quick she was able to disappear.

Anyway, I thought I would report another situation where something "went down" and us CHL'ers didnt put blood in the street.

I do think in all honesty, that I "may" have handled it a bit differently had my kids not been there....but then again, I dont know what I would do.

I have disagreements with people on this (like the burger king incident), but this lady was just trying to steal something out of the car. Now, dont get me wrong, she was wrong to steal and I wonder if anything would be different if she was trying to get into MY van, but again, I'll never know....until next time.

Anyway, wanted to get thoughts comments and say "roll your windows up"!!!!!!!!

[seamusTX]

Some questions, which you do not have to answer on this forum:

• Do you know what really happened? Some aftermarket car alarms are overly sensitive. Someone who lives near me has one that goes off at least once a day, and the (moron) owner does not even come out to investigate.
• What legal authority do you have to intervene in misdemeanor theft (PC 30.04) of the property of a person unknown to you?
• What if the suspected thief had armed male accomplices?
• What would you differently if you were armed or unarmed?

I apologize in advance if these questions seem a bit pointed.

We are not cops. We do not have the legal authority of cops. We do not have backup on call, and we do not have a city attorney,a multimillion-dollar insurance policy, and a police union to back us up.

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

Jim,

That was very well said and totally apropos.

[dewayneward]

Yes, like I said "first impulse". Note the comment "Anyway, I thought I would report another situation where something "went down" and us CHL'ers didnt put blood in the street. "

While I didnt see her head/arm IN the window grabbing at something, the vehicle was way in the back of the parking lot and wasnt in the normal "just trying to get to my car" pathway. It was odd to me that as soon as the alarm went off (we were within 5-7 feet of the car) she walked in the other direction FROM the rolled down window....and she walked away rather quickly IMO.

I am always at an "aware" level, so after that I scanned the area to see what was up and if there weren't any other people in the area. After I felt the area was OK, I got the kids into the van that was 2 vehicles past the "alarm" vehicle.

As far as the theft part of it. I have an overly "do the right thing" thing about me. I don't like to see people get away with stuff. Had I been unarmed, not with the kids, and no responsibility (family and such), I probably would have done something (which would have been yelling at the lady or something to that effect). Having a gun strapped to my hip, kids in tow, etc. made me look at it a bit differently (hence the "first impluse" comment).

After the incident, albeit a "small" incident, it made me reflect on some attitude changes that have occurred to me over the years. I don't know if it is for the better or for the worse though. Years ago I would have chased down a thief/burglar (actually to my girlfriend's/now wife surprise, I did just that when someone stole something from a walmart). Now, with kids and other responsibilities, oh yea, and my gun strapped to me with my plastic, it is making me rethink what I would do in certain situations.

I read through another post where it was alluded to that because a person had a nobama sticker on their car, some whacko tried to run them off the road. I had a nobama sticker on my car and I had one incident with my son in the car where some guy got into a "discussion" with me. My wife has always asked that I remain quiet on things, etc. whereas I have always wanted to be in your face....dare I say that she may be right on some of this.

I dont know, it seems like my mindset it turning to one of wanting to help other people/do the right thing to "you protect yours and I will protect mine". I am not so sure I like that.

Any changes in your attitude as you have begun carrying?

[dewayneward]

I read russell's comments as I was posting mine. I just want to make sure I have this right, if a person was getting raped/robbed/whatever and you were NOT in danger, you would just "mind your own business" and walk away? I understand I am not the lone ranger, but aside from a few factors (kids being right there or something), I would find it hard to sleep at night if I just stood by and did nothing while another person was being hurt.

I just want to make sure that I am understanding the comments correctly. Sure, I could see the car incident, but something else? I just don't know if I could do that.

[Liberty]

I read russell's comments as I was posting mine. I just want to make sure I have this right, if a person was getting raped/robbed/whatever and you were NOT in danger, you would just "mind your own business" and walk away? I understand I am not the lone ranger, but aside from a few factors (kids being right there or something), I would find it hard to sleep at night if I just stood by and did nothing while another person was being hurt.

I just want to make sure that I am understanding the comments correctly. Sure, I could see the car incident, but something else? I just don't know if I could do that.

Probably one thing that should be done is a phone call to 911.

[AEA]

Unless you know exactly all the details of what is happening, do not get involved.

NEVER get involved in a misdemeanor theft of a 3rd party!

If you are in the middle of a Felony robbery/attack/hijack then you have to ask yourself if you really want to get involved in that either. If it is not directly affecting you or someone with you, it would probably be best to stay out of it.

However, It would be hard for me to watch someone get killed and know that I could stop the attacker (or at least slow him/her down). So, when you are right in the middle of it and people are being killed, then you gotta know already what you are gonna do and do it immediately. Then live with what's to come legally.

[Oldgringo]

dewayneward asks:

Any changes in your attitude as you have begun carrying?

I don't know about attitude, but I do know the next to last thing I want is to be forced to draw my gun. The last thing I want is to be forced to use it. There are a lot of forms to fill out, questions to be answered and legal fees to be paid defending your actions. IOW, carrying pretty much 24/7 has not automatically made me my brother or sister's keeper.

[dewayneward]

@liberty

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#30105077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am kinda off the heels of watching this video. While I disagree that the rapist was innocent (kinda weird the way she described him), I got upset at the apathy, the ambivalence IMO of the 2 workers. They pushed a button and expected the cops to take care of it......isnt that why we have a sidearm strapped to us because WE KNOW THAT THE COPS AREN'T GOING TO BE THERE IN TIME.

I viewed the "mind your own business" and "call 911" comments in almost the same light as the 2 guys that pushed their buttons for the cops, but didn't do anything else.

I hope I dont sound accusatory or mean, but more of a trying to work through all of this. I dont have the answers and interested in getting other experienced answers because it may be an attitude adjustment that I need to make.

[Oldgringo]

@liberty

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#30105077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am kinda off the heels of watching this video. While I disagree that the rapist was innocent (kinda weird the way she described him), I got upset at the apathy, the ambivalence IMO of the 2 workers. They pushed a button and expected the cops to take care of it......isnt that why we have a sidearm strapped to us because WE KNOW THAT THE COPS AREN'T GOING TO BE THERE IN TIME.

I viewed the "mind your own business" and "call 911" comments in almost the same light as the 2 guys that pushed their buttons for the cops, but didn't do anything else.

I hope I dont sound accusatory or mean, but more of a trying to work through all of this. I dont have the answers and interested in getting other experienced answers because it may be an attitude adjustment that I need to make.

I think you're asking for an answer to all situations when there is no answer to all situations. While they are all the same, they are all different. Your cell phone is your friend and you may have to hold someone at bay while you call 911.

What will I do when and if the time comes...I dunno'. I hope it's judged to have been the right thing...under the circumstances.

Good luck and God Bless.

[KRM45]

It's good that you are paying attention to your surroundings, and your instinct to protect you children first is spot on.

The best thing you can do in most cases is to call 911, and be a good witness. Give the dispatcher as much info as you can.

As far as whether to get involved, that is a very personal decision. Jim is right, know the law. Know when you are able to use force, and what level of force you can use.

There are some things I could not stand by and watch.

[Liberty]

@liberty

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#30105077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am kinda off the heels of watching this video. While I disagree that the rapist was innocent (kinda weird the way she described him), I got upset at the apathy, the ambivalence IMO of the 2 workers. They pushed a button and expected the cops to take care of it......isnt that why we have a sidearm strapped to us because WE KNOW THAT THE COPS AREN'T GOING TO BE THERE IN TIME.

I viewed the "mind your own business" and "call 911" comments in almost the same light as the 2 guys that pushed their buttons for the cops, but didn't do anything else.

I hope I dont sound accusatory or mean, but more of a trying to work through all of this. I dont have the answers and interested in getting other experienced answers because it may be an attitude adjustment that I need to make.

My reccomendations of calling 1911 doesn't mean that I wouldn't do more or that I would do nothing. It meant that a call to 911 is one thing that I would do.

I try to make certain rules on how I react to certain conditions in life. There are certain conditions that will cause us to react. When a line is crossed I will react in a certain manor. Because life is dynamic and I'm constantly learning the line occasionally moves. I have pretty much decided at which points I will involve force, deadly force or be a witness. These are private choices that I have made and continue to make. These choices are shared between me, my maker, and occasionally my wife. Its probably not a good idea to share with an internet forum where these lines are drawn. If one claims that he would shoot at an attempted 3rd party raptist and it actually happened. The previous statement could be understood by a jury that I was looking for the oportunity, or was looking forward to the opportunity. You may notice that that many of the more seasoned posters on this board will not get involved in claiming what they would do in a given scenario.

I will say that I will defend myself and my wife. But the main reason I carry is not because the cops won't be there. I carry mostly because it is my right. Most who know me understand what I mean by this, but its not all that simple to explain.

edited for clarity.

[seamusTX]

I carry mostly because it is my right. Most who know me understand what I mean by this, but its not all that simple to explain.

The only reason that a free adult does anything is because he or she can and wants to.

Also, as you said previously, it annoys some people.

- Jim